D&D General "Red Orc" American Indians and "Yellow Orc" Mongolians in D&D

[BookTenTiger]

Point. I don't think their idea is reasonable though. Pragmatically it's not gonna happen and by that I mean WotC won't spend the money to do that and comb through legacy product they didn't create. And they won't use D+ for what they're suggesting.

I think you've made that very clear in this thread.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think you've made that very clear in this thread.

Do you think I'm wrong?

 

[J.Quondam]

Point. I don't think their idea is reasonable though. Pragmatically it's not gonna happen and by that I mean WotC won't spend the money to do that and comb through legacy product they didn't create. And they won't use D+ for what they're suggesting.

Personally, I think the idea is perfectly reasonable. I mean, entire countries have undergone reconciliation processes before.
But, yeah, I'll concede it might not be a realistic expectation, given how the modern corporate world and social media work.
I can't imagine that it hurts to try, though.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Personally, I think the idea is perfectly reasonable. I mean, entire countries have undergone reconciliation processes before.
But, yeah, I'll concede it might not be a realistic expectation, given how the modern corporate world and social media work.
I can't imagine that it hurts to try, though.

Yeah exactly.

Is it reasonable? Yes. Is it likely? No. These are different things.

 

[J.Quondam]

Yeah exactly.

Is it reasonable? Yes. Is it likely? No. These are different things.

I'd even go so far as to say it's not just reasonable, but the attempt is necessary. As Zard noted upthread, these things do fade into obscurity, in the broad social consciousness. But they still ought to be dealt with because they don't fade for the people affected.

Sometimes folks will say, "Why bother, it's just a game?"
To which the best response, imo, is, "Yes, it's just a game... so it shouldn't be that difficult to offer some meaningful redress."

 

[Dungeonosophy]

WotC wants to use Dragon+ to promote 5E. If you did that you would alienate people who like Dragon+ for that purpose (promoting 5E). [...] And they won't use D+ for what [Dungeonosophy is] suggesting.

DRAGON+ has lots of purposes, including teaching that "diversity is strength." It's not always about 5E crunch, but also about building goodwill toward the D&D brand as a whole.

DRAGON+ Issue #37 features amendatory statements on the drow:

"Everyone—aboveground and below—knows that all drow elves live in the Underdark and worship the Spider Queen.

"And everyone… is wrong.
[...]
"While these actions drove a wedge into the family tree of elvenkind, the drow that built Menzoberranzan are but a splinter group. The Forgotten Realms is about to learn a truth that has remained secret since Lolth’s initial betrayal.

“The spider-inspired ‘udadrow’ expression of the drow elves that D&D fans currently know is based on Lolth’s influence over a pocket of elves who became isolationist, cutting themselves off from the rest of drow culture,” explains Franchise Creative Director Jeremy Jarvis. “There are whole societies of drow that did not follow Lolth into the Underdark. Two such groups are the ‘aevendrow’ and the ‘lorendrow’, or the starlight elves and the greenshadow elves respectively.”
[...]
"As part of this worldbuilding we had to show that Drizzt was hardly unique as an udadrow who isn’t evil."

***
The article also features an interview with R.A. Salvatore where he touches on the amendatory new direction he's going with the drow.

 

[MGibster]

How much cultural trait can we mixup before leaving the depiction of a unique culture?

I don't think there's an answer to that. I think any fictional culture we create will likely act as a Rorschach test in that different people will see a different group reflected in it. Who do the Ferengi of Star Trek resemble most? In the first episode they appeared in, they were specifically compared to "Yankee traders" who were a somewhat unsavory group of merchants and drug smugglers from the New England area of the United States.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

At best they pull the material maybe an apology.

If it creates a big media poo storm (that doesn't go away/point to warning label) they'll just withdraw the product.

They did inherit it so they might stop selling it.

I'll say again: these are 'small words', because they snarkily play on the fears of "fandom" that our toys will be taken away. And thereby portrays me as "censor" and "spoiler." Though I have never advocated that GAZ10 simply be whisked away into the closet.

I've suggested that a large portion of the profits of the GAZ10 PDF go to appropriate charities.
I've suggested that the GAZ10 product page feature a link to a DRAGON+ article where Wizards cultural consultants honestly lay out the prejudiced facets of GAZ10.
And I've suggested that GAZ10 actually serve to "teach that diversity is strength" (like Wizards says), by serving as a template for making healing amends for "ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice" in other Wizards' legacy products.

That is different than just sweeping GAZ10 under the rug, which you repeatedly fearmonger about.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

Point. I don't think their idea is reasonable though. Pragmatically it's not gonna happen

So, your apology for repeatedly misportraying my amends proposal (in four posts!), even after I asked you to stop, is one word? "Point."
It sounds to me like you're saying:

"Point. I just made it up. Okay, ya got me. It's true you never said that Wizards should rewrite the products. But, I don't think any of your ideas for amendatory actions are reasonable, and I'm sure that none of them will ever happen, so it's okay that I just made stuff up to make your proposal sound bad."

and by that I mean WotC won't spend the money to do that and comb through legacy product they didn't create.

Wizards did create GAZ10. Wizards is the sole legal continuation of TSR, Inc.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

Do you think I'm wrong?

You are wrong to say it's "not possible." You're not in a position to say what is truly "possible" in regard to Wizards/Hasbro. And nothing new happens in this world unless someone voices it, and does it.

Back in 2015, I posted a proposal that Wizards open up the setting IP (Forgotten Realms, etc.) for fan commercial works. I even went to the trouble of cheekily posting an "imaginary news" site which purported to show new logos for the fan commercial content program. (I didn't hold onto the ruse beyond the original post; it was only an evocative image to get people thinking.)

I was nearly universally mocked by the ENWorld community: "You're wishing for a pony!" "It will NEVER happen!" "It's impossible: Wizards will never open up their setting IP! And here's a big list of reasons why it's impossible!"

And the thread was shut down.

And soon after that, DMs Guild began.

It's not like any ENWorlder came back and apologized to me, or said: "Ya know, you were right after all."

I'm not saying the proximity of the two events was anything more than coincidence. What I am saying is that I quickly tire of persons whose sole contribution is to say "it'll never happen", "it's impossible."