I disagree.
If it's "dismay", then you need an additional system to track actual physical damage, otherwise you go straight from uninjured to unconscious.
And then you are right back into the vitality/wound point systems.....
Reforms so you don't need healing surges
I disagree.
If it's "dismay", then you need an additional system to track actual physical damage, otherwise you go straight from uninjured to unconscious.
And then you are right back into the vitality/wound point systems.....
I now this is not used by many but we were all skeptical on it and now will not go back. It does work. Our game is a combination of the best from Trailblazer, PF, 3.5, Conan, and 4e. We have no in combat healing means. We utilize an active defense system with conditions around spells to implement penalty dies etc on these conditions. Active defense does 2 things, it keeps everyone involved when it isn't their turn and it allows you to roll off against the DM and it is fun rolling die IMO. Implemented with our rule st, it does not slow down plat any more then anything else. We use armor as DR and have resist energy spells available to be maintained by our casters until either dispelled or he drops. You go in to combat knowing what you have and the enemy the same thing. The only means of "In combat healing" is the ability to cast a Bears endurance or some other form of spell that boosts temp HP's. However, you cannot cast these sorts of buffs until in combat. We have give some love to the cleric with Deific gifts and you get to choose these every so many levels with one being Deific Redundancy which allows the cleric to cast any 1-3 level buff spell and get the same effect on him when casting on a companion.
This means of combat does not allow things to drag on with healing during it creating the HP yo yo for both the PC's and enemies. Combat in turn speeds up. There is a lot of other things we have done using our conditions, 4e spell templet's, spell durations (controlled, encounter, etc.), Combat reactions, combat stunts, etc. To much to say. The only means for healing is outside of combat and ability with 10 minute rest to regain up to half of max hp total and ability to spend an Action point to go back to max. This works for us and this is way more in depth but I also DM a local Pathfinder campaign for some of us and it is fun, but you really see a difference in the HP yo yo and players not being involved as much. Static AC is not my preference now and I was one of the biggest opponents of trying active defense along with getting rid of the healing for in combat. Another thing we use to help stave off PC deaths are Fate points at 1 every 5 levels. You can use these to alter a save, change the story, or any get out of jail free needed. To much to type but all of those games we took from have great ideas and there is an ability to make a great game with the new 5e. I hope it is great. Chances are we will look for new ideas as we have the game we love, but I hope it can do what they want to achieve. I am skeptical of that but want them to do it and get it right and not push it out before it makes sense. Open playtest should help with that.
This means of combat does not allow things to drag on with healing during it creating the HP yo yo for both the PC's and enemies. Combat in turn speeds up. There is a lot of other things we have done using our conditions, 4e spell templet's, spell durations (controlled, encounter, etc.), Combat reactions, combat stunts, etc. To much to say. The only means for healing is outside of combat and ability with 10 minute rest to regain up to half of max hp total and ability to spend an Action point to go back to max. This works for us and this is way more in depth but I also DM a local Pathfinder campaign for some of us and it is fun, but you really see a difference in the HP yo yo and players not being involved as much. Static AC is not my preference now and I was one of the biggest opponents of trying active defense along with getting rid of the healing for in combat. Another thing we use to help stave off PC deaths are Fate points at 1 every 5 levels. You can use these to alter a save, change the story, or any get out of jail free needed. To much to type but all of those games we took from have great ideas and there is an ability to make a great game with the new 5e. I hope it is great. Chances are we will look for new ideas as we have the game we love, but I hope it can do what they want to achieve. I am skeptical of that but want them to do it and get it right and not push it out before it makes sense. Open playtest should help with that.
I agree that we need options.
I always hated that party was forced to have a cleric pre 4th ed. Story wise it did not always make sense for the representative of a deity to be involved.
Healing surges are great. It is very convenient balance wise for the players to all start the encounter on full hit points. Pre 4th ed there was often enough healing so that this was the case then too. A lowered number of healing surges is some sort of measure of the PCs exhaustion but it is imperfect.
The alternatives???
- Healing from bed rest and magic. Traditional D&D. It worked but hit point numbers need to be higher and it would help if recovery from bed rest was faster.
- Track separate stun and body points aka Hero system. Too super heroic. Not the D&D flavour and a major new element to a game we want to unify and simplify.
- Some sort of wound system. It could work as an option but I think it would be too complex and slow combat. Not D&D flavour but some people may want to play gritty.
- No healing surges just auto recover at the end of the encounter. Simple enough. It will mean the party can adventure for ever - at least until they die or run out of their Vancian spells.
- Maybe have some limit on the auto healing, like recover half hit points at the end of each encounter. You would need to use magic to heal faster. Could be a useful compromise.
- ??
Without healing surges you have the problem that there are no effective limits on healing potions. Healing potions are a staple of D&D and they won't be removed. Maybe we need an arbitrary limit of one healing potion per encounter.
But it also grates that in 4th ed Warlords are 95% as good as Clerics in healing. Warlords have plenty of cool tactical options they would still be a good class if their healing was significantly weaker. (likewise for other 4th ed leaders)
Happens all the time in our group. The GMs needs to design encounters around it. One off wilderness need to be significantly stronger as the PCs will bring all their action points and daily resource to bear.
Frostmarrow
First Post
You can roll the healing left in a potion when you find it and then you can sip from it one hp per gulp. Potion of Healing 1d8+1. I rolled 5. Now I can syphon them over to my own body when I need to.
I'd split healing in 4 types
Magical Healing- Healing through magic spells and such
Medical Healing- Healing through the heal skill, herbs, and other medical practices
Morale Healing- Second winds and Inspiration words
Mundane Healing- Natural bed rest
Magical healing would heal HP. This type of healing would be restricted only be the strength of the magical ability and how many times the user can use the magic.
Medical Healing would heal based on the time the target is tended to and the tender's skill.
Because Morale Healing gives some many people so many problems, It'd make strictly in the Temporary HP and Constitution increase realm. Second winds, Bard songs, and Warlord's words don't heal, they just provide a barrier for characters to not get harmed further. It would pretty much only short term "restoration".
Bed rest would function like medical healing but have different strengths and limits.
Magical Healing- Healing through magic spells and such
Medical Healing- Healing through the heal skill, herbs, and other medical practices
Morale Healing- Second winds and Inspiration words
Mundane Healing- Natural bed rest
Magical healing would heal HP. This type of healing would be restricted only be the strength of the magical ability and how many times the user can use the magic.
Medical Healing would heal based on the time the target is tended to and the tender's skill.
Because Morale Healing gives some many people so many problems, It'd make strictly in the Temporary HP and Constitution increase realm. Second winds, Bard songs, and Warlord's words don't heal, they just provide a barrier for characters to not get harmed further. It would pretty much only short term "restoration".
Bed rest would function like medical healing but have different strengths and limits.
Izumi
First Post
Assume that in the fight exhaustion took place, and after the fight have them automatically "catch their breath". This can restore hp to a prearranged max threshold based on CON and Class or what-have-you. When players hit 0hp or below have them roll on a chart to determine which finger was severed or arm removed etc. Lower their max threshold total for restored "catch your breath" hp depending on how serious it was. Damage that reduces them past -1 + level can count as fatal wounds or insta-death on a failed save or what-not. Not a good or perfect solution, but it at least gives a "character justification" for the Healing Surge in a narrative-like fashion.
Naszir
First Post
How about going about this a different way?
Instead of a way to "heal" what about a way to avoid damage?
Instead of healing surge you could have a heoric surge. A character can use a heoric surge to turn what might have been a severly damaging hit into a glancing blow or the heoric surge can be used to describe the character using some extra effort to avoid the damage.
This gives the players some narrative heoric control. Imagine a DM describing a potential deadly hit by a dragon but the player instead claims control by using his characters heoric surge to only take minimum damage from the hit instead of damage that would have killed the character.
I would advocate that the player be allowed to use the heoric surge after the damage roll is made. Wasting one on a low damage roll would feel "un-heroic".
I would also advocate lower hit points overall for characters because using heroic surges would mitigate the need for greater hps.
Instead of a way to "heal" what about a way to avoid damage?
Instead of healing surge you could have a heoric surge. A character can use a heoric surge to turn what might have been a severly damaging hit into a glancing blow or the heoric surge can be used to describe the character using some extra effort to avoid the damage.
This gives the players some narrative heoric control. Imagine a DM describing a potential deadly hit by a dragon but the player instead claims control by using his characters heoric surge to only take minimum damage from the hit instead of damage that would have killed the character.
I would advocate that the player be allowed to use the heoric surge after the damage roll is made. Wasting one on a low damage roll would feel "un-heroic".
I would also advocate lower hit points overall for characters because using heroic surges would mitigate the need for greater hps.
Ahnehnois
First Post
Sounds to me like you're talking about a block or a parry or a dodge. Those types of things do enhance the game, and I'd be happy to see them and to have fighters be better at them.
I doubt that would satisfy those who want unbiquitous healing, however.
I would be just as satisfied if the way martial classes were viable was by avoiding damage.
The thing about needing clerics in D&D was that fighters and rogues have generally not been able to avoid getting hit. If an all martial party is viable because they reduce the amount of damage they receive that would be good.
It isn't like it isn't unprecedented either. Mages in prior editons could pick the right spells for the party to avoid almost all damage, and thus do without a cleric. He didn't have much room for anything else.
Likewise it might be good to have fighters who aren't quite as good at killing, but are much better at defending themselves and others.
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