D&D 4E Reply if you love 4e

the Jester

Legend
And many of the rules from essentials that were retroactively rolled into existing classes greatly changed they way the game played.

All I can really think of here is sneak attack moving to 1/turn instead of 1/round, the tossing of limits on magic item dailies and the nascent item rarity system, and I didn't find that either one made any real difference in game play. Is there something else you were referring to?

That said, the (frankly ridiculous) discussions over Essentials seemed mostly to be a handful people who hadn't actually played with Essentials stuff against people who had, and most everyone who had seemed to agree that it worked just fine alongside the rest of 4e.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Dausuul

Legend
Whether you liked essentials or hated it, it fractured and split the customer base.

Huh? I don't see how. In my group, a few people (all right, just me) loved Essentials, and the rest ranged from neutrality to hatred. It didn't split us up, though. I played Essentials characters and everyone else played Classic. What evidence is there that the customer base split? It's not like 4E/Pathfinder where the games are mutually incompatible. You can play Essentials and Classic characters together and it works fine.

Just look at all the rage about whether or not Essentials is 4e--how many times have we seen that argument hammered out?

I don't know about you, but I've never seen that argument hammered out, and I've been hanging out on ENWorld since before 4E was even announced.

And many of the rules from essentials that were retroactively rolled into existing classes greatly changed they way the game played.

Such as?
 

sabrinathecat

Explorer
Huh? I don't see how. In my group, a few people (all right, just me) loved Essentials, and the rest ranged from neutrality to hatred. It didn't split us up, though. I played Essentials characters and everyone else played Classic. What evidence is there that the customer base split? It's not like 4E/Pathfinder where the games are mutually incompatible. You can play Essentials and Classic characters together and it works fine.

I don't know about you, but I've never seen that argument hammered out, and I've been hanging out on ENWorld since before 4E was even announced.


Such as?

The discussion and the division of the customer base would both be on the WotC board. Part of the reason I don't hang around there is not just the ugly redesign (that does literally hurt my eyes), but also EnWorld is a generally nicer place.
If you missed those arguments, consider yourself lucky.
I have no desire to go into the matter in any way shape or form. Not even in broad discussion.
 

Scrivener of Doom

Adventurer
Still trying to figure out how I'll be running my 4e game when I move away from my gaming group in July. :erm:

PS

Welcome to that unhappy club. Skype and Roll20 are your friends.

I was impressed with how many things I didn't like about my previous gaming that didn't bother me until 4e showed me a different way of playing.

PS

Very true.

Bears repeating! While I admire other games (and other e's) for a lot of things, things they may do better than 4e out-of-the-box, I'd almost always rather steal ideas from them and add them onto my 4e chassis than the other way around.

Exactly. WotC got the framework right. If I was going to create a fantasy heartbreaker I would build it on the 4E framework... and I wouldn't touch monster creation at all. They nailed that once they got the maths right post-MMIII.

I'd have loved to see what 4e could have looked like with a better development cycle and a lot more cooks throwing out recipes.

It's a damn shame, really.

I would have loved to have seen it without Mike Mearls and Rob Schwalb being in positions of influence. It's clear they didn't like 4E - Mike didn't grok it judging from two of the worst D&D adventures of all time that he wrote and Rob posted on his blog about wanting a simpler game - and I'm sure it would have lasted longer and received more attention if it had been in the hands of those who really liked the system.

Heck, read Chris Perkins's DM columns and you can see how he made the ruleset sing!

Whether you liked essentials or hated it, it fractured and split the customer base. Just look at all the rage about whether or not Essentials is 4e--how many times have we seen that argument hammered out? And for what? And many of the rules from essentials that were retroactively rolled into existing classes greatly changed they way the game played.

One of the most seriously retarded decisions WotC made with Essentials was dropping the PHB. For decades now, D&D has been about driving sales of the PHB - and Ryan Dancey basically put this strategy in words but it was there all along - and then with Essentials the player books were no longer the PHB. That was seriously retarded particularly when coupled with a Red Box that had slightly different rules to Essentials.

Dumb.

But to end on a positive note, 4E rocks. It's a dream for DMs and if you have halfway decent organisational skills, you can develop techiniques for managing conditions that are still infinitely easier than running a 3.xE game where ability damage or drain is being thrown around.

Finally, monsters have crunch that matches their fluff. Arguably, for the first time in the history of D&D, monsters actually play differently and in a manner consistent with their description. Sure, you can throw in descriptions in other editions but in 4E it's part of the mechanics.

I love that. :)
 


sabrinathecat

Explorer
In college, I ran 2e, and prep time was massive--several hours per session.
I never ran 3e, but I did see what it did to the DMs as far as prep time. (and had a laugh when in round 1 of fight 1 I critted a named villain, and killed him with a single attack)
Barely got to play 3.5 due to personal soap opera/nightmare.

Also during college, I ran a Star Wars game under modified WEG/d6 rules, and it was fantastic! Quick, simple, easy, minimal prep time, and just as fun, if not more so. I never wanted to run anything else again.

Then 4e came along. After a year, I was ready to run a game, and it was almost as quick and easy as WEG Star Wars.
 


isidorus

Explorer
Supporter
D&D 4E brought me back into the fold just recently. Loving everything I am seeing. Can wait to play online with my friends even if I am little late to the party.
 

jodyjohnson

Adventurer
Whether you liked essentials or hated it, it fractured and split the customer base. Just look at all the rage about whether or not Essentials is 4e--how many times have we seen that argument hammered out? And for what? And many of the rules from essentials that were retroactively rolled into existing classes greatly changed they way the game played.

This thread was particularly brutal.
http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2964366

I have no doubt it fractured or split the fanbase, the question being was the alienated group a sliver or skosh? It was at least 3 players.
 


Remove ads

Top