D&D (2024) Rogues and sneak attacks... Must all rogues have it?

[payn]

The 5E skill system is so woefully underdeveloped that this seems like a really bad trade off. PF1 did this with archetypes and it worked very well giving not just the rouge, but many classes, options to explore the boundaries of their abilities.

 

[TwoSix]

Sneak attack is baked into rogue class for ages now and do all rogues want it?

There is a lack of a class that is a pure skill monkey without this backstabing knee capping fighting style.

It would be a hassle to make a completely new class and rogue does the skill monkey base really good.

It just needs more of it.


Variant:
every time you would get +1d6 increase for sneak attack(even at 1st level) you can pick instead;

1. bonus skill proficiency and one choice of one tool, language or weapon.
or
2. gain expertise in one skill or tool that you are proficient.


this variant would seriously lack combat potential so maybe it would not be a good idea in 2-4 party size, but this would be ideal 5th character in a party, especially if there is lots of "gain 2 skills at 1st level classes" in the rest of the party.

ofc, you can pick only half of your sneak attack dice for this to keep some combat presence or mix it however you want.

Totally fine, I've done that exact change before. I wanted one level of rogue for expertise/extra skills, and the DM was fine with me giving up the 1d6 sneak attack for a 3rd expertise.

 

[Quartz]

Why do you feel the game needs a "pure skill monkey"...?

Very useful for an urban / social campaign

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Sneak attack is baked into rogue class for ages now and do all rogues want it?

There is a lack of a class that is a pure skill monkey without this backstabing knee capping fighting style.

the problem is that 5e (and 4e and 3e before them) is a combat focused game... you can't make a class that isn't good at combat

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Delete the Rogue, give all their stuff to the Fighter, who sorely needs it.

I think this could be okaish but that would give us LESS nonmagical classes

 

[Shardstone]

Sneak attack is baked into rogue class for ages now and do all rogues want it?

There is a lack of a class that is a pure skill monkey without this backstabing knee capping fighting style.

It would be a hassle to make a completely new class and rogue does the skill monkey base really good.

It just needs more of it.


Variant:
every time you would get +1d6 increase for sneak attack(even at 1st level) you can pick instead;

1. bonus skill proficiency and one choice of one tool, language or weapon.
or
2. gain expertise in one skill or tool that you are proficient.


this variant would seriously lack combat potential so maybe it would not be a good idea in 2-4 party size, but this would be ideal 5th character in a party, especially if there is lots of "gain 2 skills at 1st level classes" in the rest of the party.

ofc, you can pick only half of your sneak attack dice for this to keep some combat presence or mix it however you want.

This works best if you add "Skill Actions" like PF2E has, so that way the skills can be used in combat. Otherwise, you've made a rogue that is only fun outside of combat. It'd be good for an all sidekick game, or a low level investigative game, but any and all combats would be basically wasted time for your Rogue without an expansion of how to use skills.

Ultimately, skills aren't fun in D&D. Skill checks are usually binary, and they don't open a lot of doors for the party.

 

[wedgeski]

Very useful for an urban / social campaign

Sure, but you have a whole party. Between the 4/5/6 whatever of you, you should have most or everything covered.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I feel like it could work, but the alternate options are... just bad.

Like it's the problem a lot of the 'options' subclasses have where eventually you get to a point where your new class feature is the class feature you actively chose not to get for the last five or six levels.

You should get access to skill tricks or something rather than just proficiency/expertise.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I feel like it could work, but the alternate options are... just bad.

Like it's the problem a lot of the 'options' subclasses have where eventually you get to a point where your new class feature is the class feature you actively chose not to get for the last five or six levels.

You should get access to skill tricks or something rather than just proficiency/expertise.

yeah like... I already have persuasion prof and exp so no I can grab a charm person like effect and later maybe a dominate like effect.

 

[bedir than]

This works best if you add "Skill Actions" like PF2E has, so that way the skills can be used in combat.

How is this different than the 5e rule that you can use any skill as an Action?