Rogues flanking at range?

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Grappling provides no concealment to either grappler.

But if your ally was under the effects of a Blur spell before he started grappling ...

 

[mikebr99]

You're absolutely right. I was assuming the grappling characters were of equal size; I should know better than to assume.



Not sure about this. Grappling gives no AC modifier to the defender; the chance of hitting the wrong defender is in effect the only "cover" provided. But cover doesn't deny sneak attack; concealment does. Grappling provides no concealment to either grappler.

Well Grappling & Concealment both provide a % miss chance... or at least a % not to hit the intended target.... YMMV


Mike

 

[Kaffis]

...The proble, of course, is that this is not true across the rest of the ruleset, where you can possess a given condition - invisibility, bless, prone, etc. - and not get all the benefits and penalties of that state.

But see, something like bless, where you get a +2 to your will saves on fear and whatnot -- you have that plus two, whether you are asked to make the roll or not. And invisibility -- uncanny dex overrides the flatfootedness, it doesn't deny it to you. I get to keep it *even though* you're taking it away from me. You're still taking it away from me, I just get to add it anyways because I'm uncanny.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well Grappling & Concealment both provide a % miss chance... or at least a % not to hit the intended target.... YMMV

Uh... well, so does armor. That doesn't mean someone with armor has Concealment, and is thus immune to sneak attacks.

Grappling does not equal concealment.

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

But see, something like bless, where you get a +2 to your will saves on fear and whatnot -- you have that plus two, whether you are asked to make the roll or not.

Exactly!

And when you're flanking, you have that +2, whether you make a melee attack roll or not.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

 

[nak9788]

Has anyone considered the prestige class: Order of the Bow Intitiate? She gets a ranged sneak attack ability. But also, she has the ability to shoot her bow at an adjacent target without provoking an AoO.

Technically I think she still couldn't flank someone with her bow, even if she is adjacent but I don't see why. I mean people get a flanking bonus basically because the flanked opponent has to react to someone in front of them as well as someone directly behind them, when he looks at one person, the other one stabs (or shoots) him in back.

 

[kenobi65]

Has anyone considered the prestige class: Order of the Bow Intitiate? She gets a ranged sneak attack ability. But also, she has the ability to shoot her bow at an adjacent target without provoking an AoO.

Except that it's not, technically, a Sneak Attack. It stacks with Sneak Attack, but it's a different kind of bonus damage (I don't have my book in front of me, and I can't remember the name off the top of my head).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Except that it's not, technically, a Sneak Attack. It stacks with Sneak Attack, but it's a different kind of bonus damage (I don't have my book in front of me, and I can't remember the name off the top of my head).

'Ranged Precision'.

The Sword and Fist OotBI got a sneak attack, from memory, but not the CW 3.5 version.

-Hyp.

 

[atom crash]

The two abilities of the Order of the Bow Initiate in question are ranged precision and close combat shot. Ranged precision confers a precision damage bonus on a single ranged attack within 30 feet (as a standard action). You trade off multiple shots for a single shot that does more damage. And it stacks with sneak attack damage. It should also probably stack with skirmish damage.

Close combat shot allows an initiate to make a ranged attack in a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity. This attack does not threaten, so it can't be used to provide someone else with a flanking bonus. And since it isn't a melee attack, it also can't receive a flanking bonus.

 

[kenobi65]

The two abilities of the Order of the Bow Initiate in question are ranged precision and close combat shot. Ranged precision confers a precision damage bonus on a single ranged attack within 30 feet (as a standard action). You trade off multiple shots for a single shot that does more damage. And it stacks with sneak attack damage. It should also probably stack with skirmish damage.

And, note that it can always be used...it doesn't have the limitations of a sneak attack (i.e., when the defender is denied his Dex bonus to AC, or is flanked).