ronpurvis said:
I didn't continue to harp on it. I made one post on the subject. You have made several, of which you fall far from the majority opinion. If anyone is showing a case for ignorence or purposeful pot-stiring, it would have to be you. I will agree that I don't care to discuss the matter with you any further.
BTW, I made the post as I was reading the post for the first time and had not read everyone else's responses or his attempts at an explanation.
Please note that what you are calling minority/majority is nothing more than the
vocal minority/majority. I disagree on some points, agree on others. Until I decide to post, if I choose to do so, you have no idea which portion of which camp I fall into. But heck, I am breaking my silence right now, I might as well attempt to add to the conversation.
I have yet to see a reasonable qualifier of what determines Professional from Amateur. The problem is that these distinctions mean completely different things to different industries/professions.
In computers and networks, I do a pretty decent job. I manage Unix based systems, I manage Windows based systems, I manage routers & firewalls, yet I don't have a degree or even any certifications. This makes it more difficult for me to job hunt, but I make a pretty decent living at what I do. Am I professional or amateur? Depending on whom you ask, I am both.
I used to be a distance runner. In High School, I had a chance to speak with Ibrahim Hussein shortly after he won the New York Marathon (1987). He was planning on competing in the Olympics and one of us brought up the fact that only amateur runners could compete in the Olympics. He explained that even though he won quite a bit of money winning big events, he was still an amateur because it all went into a trust fund. He could withdraw enough to cover reasonable living expenses. At the time I spoke with him, reasonable living expenses covered the apartment he lived in, utilities, food, and travel expenses to train & compete. I don't think he even had a car at the time. He was professional enouigh to win races and make enough money to live off of, as well as sock a bunch away into a trust fund for after he went "professional". But he was amateur enough to qualify for the Olympic requirements of being a non-professional.
There are people in community symphonies/orchestras that are professional musicians, yet they don't earn enough to cover all of their living expenses and have other part time jobs. They may spend 40+ hours playing music, but they have to wait tables on the side. Some do well enough at posh restaurants that they would make more money if they quit being a professional musician and went into full-time food services. Are they professional or amateur?
The problem I see with the distinction between professional and amateur is the definition is, effectively, meaningless. Where is the bar for "professional"? More importantly, does it matter? It might matter to you, and certainly it seems to matter to many of you, but it doesn't matter much to me.
Let me put it this way. I don't buy Ronin Arts PDFs because I know Phil does them as his method of paying the bills. I buy them because they are good and fit my needs. Truth is, there are many Ronin Arts PDFs that don't fit my needs and I don't buy them. I like Phil. I encourage others to buy his stuff when they ask me. But I buy based on the value I perceive of the PDF.
I admit that I am always happy to find Ronin Arts PDFs that I want to buy because I know that is benefitting Phil. I also admit that my thinking is influenced slightly by knowing that Phil relies on PDFs and gaming 'gigs' to support himself, but it is difficult to quantify how my thinking is influenced. I think it is along the lines of looking a little harder at Ronin Arts material because I know he has a vested interest in putting together quality ideas & material. But the fact stands that there are competing products that have driven Ronin Arts material further down on my wish list because they fill my needs right now. I couldn't tell you if those products were done by a "professional" or an "amateur". But I could tell you whether they were well done or not and whether I would buy from that person again.
And really, that is all that matters to me. Good products get my money. Good products by good people probably get more of my money. I feel good buying a Ronin Arts PDF because I know I can email or post to Phil Reed and I will get a response. He will take my feedback seriously, he will maintain himself in a courteous manner (some might even say Professional) and if I have a question, he will try to answer it. I have never met Phil, yet I know these things about him. I think he would do all of this regardless of whether Ronin Arts was a sideline hobby or his sole income. So if ?I had to define professional, I would do so based on behavior, not how much income is derived from published materials.
But really, I don't think anybody else in this thread feels that much differently. So I haven't really added anything new to the conversation.
