eyebeams said:There's another issue at work here: Namely, that RPGs need better-defined semipro and amatuer markets.
I completely disagree with you on this point. Its an entirely subjective labeling process you proscribe. Not only is it a bad idea and a form of elitism that is unnappetizing to so many, but i just don't see as how its feasible.
First of all, PDF consumers are one of the most, if not the best, educated consumer groups. These are the people who know about what they are buying. They can't helping buying a PDF at RPGNow without seeing a review section on the same page as the "Buy it Now" button. Many of them have Demos as well. Your method of arbitrarily (which it will ever only be considering that it relies opinion as anything else) labeling works as professional, semi-pro, and amateur isn't going to do a better job. Its only going to cause bad feelings and in some cases, possible legal issues.
Secondly, I certaintly don't see how any PDF customers could even get to sites like RPGNow without arriving there via sites like ENWorld, which offers more opinions and reviews on products (and game companies themselves) than you can shake a stick at. Beyond that, you could create a post (or poll) on sites like this one asking about a product or company and within minutes to hours, get more responses than you would ever need. The only reason a PDF consumer could be ignorant about a pdf's "quality" is because they want to be.

Print customers are another beast entirely. I don't see how you think you can reach them. Unless you plan on creating some sort of review magazine, which is already being done to however much success (i don't keep track honestly, don't need it). A label system for print books where the books themselves would be labled, would need to be an industry-wide movement. I don't see any company agreeing to be labeled amatuer. If you don't already know that putting a label of "semi pro" or "amatuer" will do damage to a book's sales...i don't think i could convince you regardless of what i say.
eyebeams said:DTRPG is there to get at a specific segment. The reason they use the annoying "professional" moniker is because they want some kind of indicator that their focus is on high quality professional offerings. The reason they have DRM (which I'm not too fond of) is probably to attract clients who would normally never sell their material in electronic form.
I totally agree with you here. I do believe that this is their goal with DTRPG. I personally detest DTRPG and not so much because of its irratating tech requirements (which really does only foul up a small part of the consumer base), but because of the precedent it sets. DRM assumes the user is a thief. That point can be spun ALL they like and its not going away. Because its true. If DRM gets real popular, i can only imagine what a second generation DRM set up will be like. I don't jump through hoops to spend my money, those wanting my dollars do the jumping. This DRM nonsense is NOT worth getting those companies afraid of their own shadow into the PDF mix. There is already plenty of competiton for my PDF dollar. I'm not going to beg them for the privilege of giving them my money.
eyebeams said:RPGNow has a large a thriving group of what could only be called semiprofessional and amatuer offerings. This isn't to say that they don't also have professionally produced material as well. The issue that comes up, though, is that there's no real way to tell hobbyist merchants apart from folks like Phil Reed, and sometimes, to be brutally frank, a lot of the former stuff is of wildly variable quality. Some of is is excellent. Some of it really, reallly isn't.
As is a lot of WOTC, White Wolf's, and every other company's books. Everyone has put out at least one or more dogs in their time. Some of the "professionals" put out consistently poor books (or at least did in the beginning of their company's history) if you ask some people. Again, this notion of quantifying what is professional is just too subjective. Junk is junk. Pretty junk...is still just junk.
eyebeams said:I think the fact that they approached Phil Reed is a good sign that they want the split to be between more than print and .pdf producers, but there really ought to be a split and consumers ought to have a good grasp of the differences. Why?
1) You should know the difference between pro and nonpro work so that you can make a choice knowing the production values have a chance of beeing significantly different for nonpro work.
2) You should be able to distinguish nonpro work for innovation and ideas that don't necessarily fly past the vetting process elsewhere.
Well. I think you assume way too much ignorance on the part of us customers. We know a good book when we see one, thank you. You absolutely DO NOT need to be an industry professional, or be hand held by them, to know a good book when you see one.
As i mentioned above, no PDF consumer goes into a product igorant of its contents or general quality unless they WANT to. There are simply to many avenues that exist for them to research anything they are interested in.
As for print books. I've never gone into a store and not been able to look through a book and see what its like. I've had a couple places try to charge me for unwrapping a book in my travels (btw, those stores didn't get any business out of me), but i've never been unable to look through the books on the shelf. No label system can ever beat that. Ever.
eyebeams said:3) Distributors should be able to tell them apart so that they can assess whether or not to invest in professional-quality .pdf producers without getting stung. I can only imagine the hideous amount of work involved sifting through stuff to find what's worth supporting
Well RPGNow has a complaint system for those products that slip by them that are truly awful. Personally, i don't see the need. If a product has been up a while and has no sales, thats an indicator. Though thats not even fool-proof. The item may not be marketed well or got lost in the shuffle of new products. Unless bandwidth (or whatever term i should have used) is a major issue for places like RPGNow, i say leave the stuff alone, it'll sort itself out. Censorship is almost always a bad idea. Darn Eric's Grandmother!!!

eyebeams said:4) Writers should have a better idea of who's going to pay them and pay them well. I can attest to this personally, since I've been stung once by a company who ended up being far less professional than they purported to be.
This is a bad deal all around. I do feel your pain. I've gotten stiffed once or twice in my life by an employer. I do know that places like these boards are a great resource for letting others know about companies who don't pay. One company got to exonerate themselves once on these boards for false accusations as well. I don't think that a labeling system is appropriate for problems like this though.
eyebeams said:5) It would discourage products that neither make money nor offer anything distinct to the hobby.
How is that your problem? If someone is making products that don't sell, its their choice. If they are not selling, then they certaintly aren't taking any business away from you. I don't see why you would care otherwise. Unless its out of some elitist attitude. Which i assume isn't the case here.
As to whether a book or company brings anything distinct to the hobby...that again is highly subjective criteria and is best left alone to the individual customer. There is no one in this industry i would be willing to cede my decision making to and having some sort of label system that prepackages books or companies with labels like "Semi-Pro", "Amateur", or "Professional" does just that.
eyebeams said:It seems like the percentage increase isn't a very good idea, though (shouldn't quality be its own draw, here?), and I would prefer it if DRM was not a mandatory part of doing business with DTRPG.
That question that was asked about their higher rates was a great one. Did it ever get answered?
I don't buy pdfs or print books from any company that does business with those DTRPG folks and their DRM. If i was in the business, i wouldn't go near them with a 10' pole. Nothing personal, i just made my choice.