D&D 5E Sane Magic Item Prices

[Azzy]

As long as you are basing your decision in reason, which is really easy, you don't need a system. When it comes to magic items, "system" pretty much = fail. You can't take something as diverse in power and utility, and create a system that will cover it all. Not without putting a lot of it on the DM to come up with prices, like they've done with the crappy rarity system in 5e.

I'm sorry, but you're not really contributing anything constructive to the conversation.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm sorry, but you're not really contributing anything constructive to the conversation.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean nothing I'm saying is constructive. I've been trying to help people understand about doing the pricing themselves being in my opinion the best way to buy and sell items.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Once. The rest of the time I also responded.

We are not representative of the community.

Regardless, the downtime practice, which you continue to ignore, is to have a range of money earned, not auto maximum.

And still ignoring the point.

Seriously, you want to say that we can't talk about the community because we aren't representative of it? Then why do we talk about anything at all?

 

[Maxperson]

And still ignoring the point.

Seriously, you want to say that we can't talk about the community because we aren't representative of it? Then why do we talk about anything at all?

Dude. Enough with the Strawmen. I didn't say we can't talk about the community. I let you know that we are not representative OF the community. What we want or don't want isn't a sample of what the community wants or doesn't want. When you said, " I'm asking to consider the community's response and what that might mean about the community's practices and pre-conceptions." you were indicating that those guys were the community and/or representative of the community. That's just plain wrong.

It's pretty telling that you once again ignored, "Regardless, the downtime practice, which you continue to ignore, is to have a range of money earned, not auto maximum."

 

[Chaosmancer]

Improve on something that was broken in every edition it appeared in? They already improved on it by leaving it in DM hands.

No, as discussed. Abandoning responsibility for pricing things does not make it better. It makes it harder for DMs who are not confident enough to simply make up random numbers and hope it works. Leading to them seeking sub-par solutions that make the game actively worse.

To give you prices, I would need to know how much gold is given out in your game, as well as the hundreds to thousands of details that went into setting up the sale? Every sale will be different. Circumstances affect the pricing, as well as the power of the item, sometimes rarity, and more.

In my games, those details are set forth during game play, so it's easy for me to come up with a price for the item when it comes up.

You know what else would require you to know how much gold is in your game and hundreds to thousands of other details?

The price of hiring workers (2 gp per day for skilled workers, PHB pg 159)

The price of a merchant galley (30,000 gp, PHB 157)

The price for fine clothing for a fancy dinner party (15 gp. PHB 151)

The Price of a Greatsword inlayed with silver (150 gp, PHB 149-148)

The Price of Full Plate Armor (1,500 gp, PHB 145)


Seems WoTC had no trouble pricing mundane items, mounts, vehicles, airships, workers, weapons armor... and yet it was far to difficult for them to even begin conceiving of pricing magical items? That seems... like a load of BS.

 

[SkidAce]

Seems WoTC had no trouble pricing mundane items, mounts, vehicles, airships, workers, weapons armor... and yet it was far to difficult for them to even begin conceiving of pricing magical items? That seems... like a load of BS.

I am somewhat on the opposite side/middle of this discussion from you, but that's a very valid point to consider.

 

[Maxperson]

No, as discussed. Abandoning responsibility for pricing things does not make it better. It makes it harder for DMs who are not confident enough to simply make up random numbers and hope it works. Leading to them seeking sub-par solutions that make the game actively worse.

There is no responsibility or duty to price things. And I'm not sure why a DM wouldn't be confident to make up random numbers, not that anything I'm saying is about making things up randomly. Coming up with random numbers is something a 4 year old can do.

You know what else would require you to know how much gold is in your game and hundreds to thousands of other details?

The price of hiring workers (2 gp per day for skilled workers, PHB pg 159)

The price of a merchant galley (30,000 gp, PHB 157)

The price for fine clothing for a fancy dinner party (15 gp. PHB 151)

The Price of a Greatsword inlayed with silver (150 gp, PHB 149-148)

The Price of Full Plate Armor (1,500 gp, PHB 145)


Seems WoTC had no trouble pricing mundane items, mounts, vehicles, airships, workers, weapons armor... and yet it was far to difficult for them to even begin conceiving of pricing magical items? That seems... like a load of BS.

You are aware that mundane items and magic items are not the same, right? They are not anything even close to being equivalent.

 

[Azzy]

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean nothing I'm saying is constructive. I've been trying to help people understand about doing the pricing themselves being in my opinion the best way to buy and sell items.

But no one wants what you are selling, so trying to keep forcing your opinion into the conversationon when others have routinely disagreed with you is not constructive in the slightest. It fact, it just comes across as masturbatory.

 

[Maxperson]

I am somewhat on the opposite side/middle of this discussion from you, but that's a very valid point to consider.

Magic items have serious balance issues and the mundane items don't. A suit of full plate can't launch fireballs or summon genies.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Dude. Enough with the Strawmen. I didn't say we can't talk about the community. I let you know that we are not representative OF the community. What we want or don't want isn't a sample of what the community wants or doesn't want. When you said, " I'm asking to consider the community's response and what that might mean about the community's practices and pre-conceptions." you were indicating that those guys were the community and/or representative of the community. That's just plain wrong.

It's pretty telling that you once again ignored, "Regardless, the downtime practice, which you continue to ignore, is to have a range of money earned, not auto maximum."

Because the larger point isn't about downtime at all. I only talked about downtime to AVOID the EXACT issue that came up. Everyone accusing me of advocating for the party to stop adventuring for all time and do nothing except milk gold from their businesses.

And, lo and behold, I was still accused of that exact sentiment. FOUR TIMES. One of those times was by you, because you missed that I said it was downtime. But, since then, you have refused to address the point, instead insisting that you already apologized for missing that it was downtime, as though that solves the point and we no longer need to discuss the point I was trying to make.

Now, I'd like to talk about why the community, DnD and ENworld, seems to have this idea that any form of making money that does not explicitly involve going on an adventure is bad. Why it ruins the game. Why it needs to be stopped on every front. Because it is also the reason I've been told that we can't have a crafting system where being profitable is possible. It seems to me that any way of making large sums of money has to be dragged back into ways to make them less reliable and randomized. It seems that if you are making small sums, no one cares. To me, that seems to be because that adventures tend to lead to large sums of money, so people don't feel threatened by a player making small sums of money, but as soon as they make a big sum of money... it has to be a problem, to be analyzed and prevented.

I'd like to talk about all that, but instead you are going to tell me that you made it a downtime table, so there is nothing to talk about. After all, the only thing that matters is your table and your game, because we can't possibly talk beyond those two things in any way shape or form. And you totally already apologized for missing that I was talking about Downtime, so why am I still obsessing over it?