D&D 5E Sane Magic Item Prices

[Azzy]

Dungeon Master Option: High-Level Campaigns (Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, 2nd Edition, Revised) if you want to know...

D&D groups were having "magic item shops" long before that book was ever published. Not to mention that I'm not sure how many people actually bought that particular book.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

And for at least 1 of those(3rd) it made magic items a joke. PCs always picked the same few super optimal items and cheesed their way through encounters, having an even easier time than just the class abilities made it. Magic mart in 3e broke that system even worse than anything else in the game. CoDzilla was a much huger issue than it should have been due to stat enhancing items that PCs could just buy. They drove DCs through the roof.

So? Just the more reason for WotC to improve upon them.

Edit: I'm still looking forward to your pricing on the examples I mentioned earlier.

 

[CapnZapp]

And you willfully ignore that TSR era D&D books strongly advised against magical shops.

What a load of crock. You're really going there? Cherry picking individual sentences from some old rulebook.

Worst argument ever. Challenge: let's see if you follow all the advice in there or only the ones you like...

 

[Maxperson]

So? Just the more reason for WotC to improve upon them.

Edit: I'm still looking forward to your pricing on the examples I mentioned earlier.

Improve on something that was broken in every edition it appeared in? They already improved on it by leaving it in DM hands.

To give you prices, I would need to know how much gold is given out in your game, as well as the hundreds to thousands of details that went into setting up the sale? Every sale will be different. Circumstances affect the pricing, as well as the power of the item, sometimes rarity, and more.

In my games, those details are set forth during game play, so it's easy for me to come up with a price for the item when it comes up.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Improve on something that was broken in every edition it appeared in?

Opinions differ on 3e, but in no way was 4e broken. Try again.

To give you prices, I would need to know how much gold is given out in your game, as well as the hundreds to thousands of details that went into setting up the sale? Every sale will be different. Circumstances affect the pricing, as well as the power of the item, sometimes rarity, and more.

In my games, those details are set forth during game play, so it's easy for me to come up with a price for the item when it comes up.

So you can't make a pricing system on utility or even rarity. Check.

 

[Maxperson]

Opinions differ on 3e, but in no way was 4e broken. Try again.

I've said like 2 or 3 times not that 1e-3e and 5e break with magic marts. I specifically excluded 4e, because I don't know that system. Maybe it was the one edition where it worked. I have no idea, but I'm going to remain skeptical about it.

So you can't make a pricing system on utility or even rarity. Check.

I never claimed I could. I said it was easy to come up with the price for a magic item. Never said anything about making a system. Systems fail automatically, because they can't begin to cover all the details that will be present.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

I specifically excluded 4e, because I don't know that system. Maybe it was the one edition where it worked.

It did work, though the items generally got pretty boring. But they could've used the lessons learned. And no, that is not 'just forget about it and put our head in the ground, hoping it will all go away'.

I never claimed I could. I said it was easy to come up with the price for a magic item. Never said anything about making a system. Systems fail automatically, because they can't begin to cover all the details that will be present.

Anyone can pull a number from somewhere. This whole thread is about doing it in a way that is just some semblance of a useful system, to replace the the WotC nonsense.

 

[Lanefan]

And you willfully ignore that TSR era D&D books strongly advised against magical shops.

Why do people so often seem to leap to the conclusion that providing magic item pricing is immediately going to lead to magic shops?

Magic item pricing is essential if a party want to evenly divide their treasure by value (and what other fair and equitable way is there of doing it?); and if the game doesn't provide that pricing then the DM has to, which dumps a lot of probably-unexpected work into the DM's lap.

It's up to each individual DM to decide if the setting has and-or supports magic shops.

 

[Maxperson]

Anyone can pull a number from somewhere. This whole thread is about doing it in a way that is just some semblance of a useful system, to replace the the WotC nonsense.

As long as you are basing your decision in reason, which is really easy, you don't need a system. When it comes to magic items, "system" pretty much = fail. You can't take something as diverse in power and utility, and create a system that will cover it all. Not without putting a lot of it on the DM to come up with prices, like they've done with the crappy rarity system in 5e.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Yep. They broke the game in 1e, 2e, 3e and 5e. Not sure about 4th. Some people don't mind games that are broken like that, though, so more power to them. They just shouldn't expect that sort of thing to be supported fully.

4e basically had a built-in portable magic item shop via the Enchant Item ritual, that was no more than a feat away from any character. It did not break the game. In fact, not allowing magic item shopping or crafting would probably break the game, since you were expected not only to have a lot of magic items, but a certain progression of particular ones.

Loot tables were about getting stuff ahead of time, which was cool, but of limited effect. (What I mean: you can make items up to your own level. You would find items of higher level, by up to four levels. You can use items of any level, although a lot of people applied MMO rules here erroneously. You were expected to have at least on-level items for your weapons and/or focus, your armor, and your neck-slot save-boosting item. Found items might get you a better-than expected item, but only by a little bit. Which is, again, cool but not game-breaking.)

It's a pretty good microcosm of 4e's "it works really well, if you play this one way" design that divides people on the edition so much.