D&D (2024) Should the PHB have an arcane half caster?

[Minigiant]

Anyway: the spells are there. What's missing is something that both has the spell slots early enough to make use of it before the end of the campaign, and the bulk to survive bringing them in melee range.
Plus feature that sublimate the base effects of those spells (exemple: generic level 3 theoretical Gish feature - You have advantage on weapon attacks when landing from a teleportation effect. There. You got your teRepoLUtationuuuu suRashuuuuuu)

I think that is the core problems.

1. The currrent paths don't let you get the arcane spells fast enough to use them in most campaigns
2. The currrent paths don't give you enough arcane spell slots to use magic often until high levels
3. Arcane is defined by many of its supernatural effects and many of them are mid to high level or don't mesh weapon and armor use

I mean the Paladin and Ranger run into these problems as half casters. They are bailed out with other class features. And Ranger wasn't until TCOE. And Divine and Primal have fewer effects assumed than Arcane.

 

[tetrasodium]

I think that is the core problems.

1. The currrent paths don't let you get the arcane spells fast enough to use them in most campaigns
2. The currrent paths don't give you enough arcane spell slots to use magic often until high levels
3. Arcane is defined by many of its supernatural effects and many of them are mid to high level or don't mesh weapon and armor use

I mean the Paladin and Ranger run into these problems as half casters. They are bailed out with other class features. And Ranger wasn't until TCOE. And Divine and Primal have fewer effects assumed than Arcane.

Misty step disguise self & shadowblsde were mentioned, those were first & second level spells.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Yeah, I think we've established that what you think works and what I think works are not exactly overlapping sets.

Yeah, but in this case the writers and designers of 3.0 and 3.5 implicitly recognised that 3.X style multiclassing didn't work for half and half characters. Which was why they created multiclassing patch prestige classes like the Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, and Mystic Theurge.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I'm very looking forward to the 'just use blade cantrips if you want to gish' excuse when it turns out the new PHB doesn't even have them at all.

 

[Minigiant]

Misty step disguise self & shadowblsde were mentioned, those were first & second level spells.

Those are only 3 spells.

Arcane magic is about breadth. You get a wide spread of different effects being an arcanist.

But many of them like flight, haste, domination, are fear 3rd level and up and many of the others cost an action (which removves your ability to attack)

 

[CreamCloud0]

i think part of what would really makes a class feel like a 'true gish' is being able to do 'magic things' without requiring to spend an action, or maintain concentration(on some basic class stuff, i'm not saying they get to dismiss it wholesale), like how it's much more satisfying to just be able to smite with the paladin and expend the spell slot as and when you call it rather than like with the ranger where you need to set up with an action to cast lighting arrow or searing smite, which uses and thus breaks your concentration on any other spells you have going for the 0.5 seconds before you immediately try to attack something with it.

 

[tetrasodium]

Those are only 3 spells.

Arcane magic is about breadth. You get a wide spread of different effects being an arcanist.

But many of them like flight, haste, domination, are fear 3rd level and up and many of the others cost an action (which removes your ability to attack)

"Arcane magic is about breadth. " Yes it is, sword magic significantly less so. Without becoming unbalanced, why should an armored weapon using gish straddling niches have the same breadth as a wizard standing at the center of a single niche?

 

[CreamCloud0]

"Arcane magic is about breadth. " Yes it is, sword magic significantly less so. Without becoming unbalanced, why should an armored weapon using gish straddling niches have the same breadth as a wizard standing at the center of a single niche?

yes, with sword magic you have a niche, but you ought to also have breadth within that niche, we can only use our magic to supplement our fighting style and weapon attacks, but let us be able to do that in a dozen different ways.

 

[Minigiant]

"Arcane magic is about breadth. " Yes it is, sword magic significantly less so. Without becoming unbalanced, why should an armored weapon using gish straddling niches have the same breadth as a wizard standing at the center of a single niche?

Because that's the point of Arcane.

This is why I think new spells are the path. To have.

1. Abjuration sword attack
2. Conjuration sword attack
3. Divination sword attack
4. Enchantment sword attack
5. Evocation sword attack
6. Illusion sword attack
7. Necromancy sword attack
8. Transmutation sword attack

without all the same level of power as a full caster

 

[mellored]

You really hate Shadow blade, don't you?

Only that it's concentration on a melee character.

Otherwise it's one good option.

So you see, there is plenty of options for arcane weapon combat.

There are a few.

Otherly dimension duel? That's wish territory. Depending on the conditions, the effects you describe border on the realm of 9th level.

Seems more like a 5th level one to me. Compel duel is a 1st level spell, this is a bit fancier.

generic level 3 theoretical Gish feature - You have advantage on weapon attacks when landing from a teleportation effect. There. You got your teRepoLUtationuuuu suRashuuuuuu)

Yup. That would be a good feature for the class.

If I may be so bold, I would hazard the guess that what you're looking for is not options, but explosiveness.

No. I want more options.

Here are some that I made a while ago, that I just remembered I did...

Dungeon Masters Guild

www.dmsguild.com