Sigil is in the DMG!

[Irda Ranger]

Who says it has to be floating anywhere? Or that anyone knows where it is within any larger plane? People happen to wander in through portals, and exit via portals, but beyond the edge of the ring they simply see... Nothingness...

It'd be awesome if it's a location without a location, and a persistant mystery as to just where it is.

I came back to this thread to post something very similar, but you beat me to it. Great minds ...

But my spin on it would be that Sigil is still a huge torus floating over a really big spire. Way, way down lands (called "the Outlands") can be seen, but there's no way down there. The only way in and out of Sigil is through the portals, and none have been found that lead to the land at the bottom of the Spire. No one knows that's down there, or has ever met anyone who's been there. The Outlands are a total mystery, and the exact location of Sigil within the Multiverse can never be determined with any certainty. Spells which are supposed to tell you which plane you're on simply fizzle, or return with no result.

 

[Relique du Madde]

I meant if they suddenly included a massive dragonborn ghetto in Sigil (like an entire nation of dragonborn has already showed up in 4e FR). I wouldn't be opposed to having them around, just not a massive influx that came off as heavy-handed.

That problem is easily solved considering that the dabus constantly are changing the configuration of the city. As far as we know, over a millenia ago, the Lady of Pain could have told the Dabus to wall off an entire district within the hive in retribution for the inhabitants trying to resurrect a fallen draconian god within her city then Mazed everyone who inquired about the whereabouts of that district.

I mean hell, we all know what happened when Aoskar mettled in her affairs..

 

[Stogoe]

Sorry, but you just revealed yourself to be clueless. primer.

This, this right here, is why I hate Planescape: the arrogant condescending attitude of Planescape players towards everyone else around them at all times.

And count me as terribly disappointed with this news. I thought we were dumping the nonsense of the Great Wheel. I don't like defacing books generally, but that paragraph is getting Sharpied out of my copy of 4e at the earliest opportunity.

 

[Nymrohd]

Well the only reason I liked the Great Wheel with Sigil was a lot of excellent articles at the mimir about planar archeology. Certainly a major issue in reconcepting it is that one of the major powergames is now missing (the Blood War, both as an arms race and as distraction that kept evil from fighting good, were major political games in Sigil). The other major issue is the lack of outsider races, especially yugoloths and guardinals (A'kin is easily one of the best fluffed NPCs in D&D, bartering for the latest chant with Shemeska in a back table with people playing in the casino of the Fortune's wheel feels like a noir element, and I will so dearly miss Tripicus).
However I think that a planescape like campaign can be reconcepted in the 4E cosmology with only a little bit of fine tuning.

 

[JohnRTroy]

This, this right here, is why I hate Planescape: the arrogant condescending attitude of Planescape players towards everyone else around them at all times.

I also hated this. Planescape had a style that didn't fit every campaign world, but yet ended up using the "default cosmology" of the Outer Planes, thus it was "official" for every campaign world. I felt Planescape's style was then forced on Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and Forgotten Realms (and even more planes)--the outer planes were what PS made them. It was irritating, and it was part of 2nd Ed TSR's ill-themed plan to tie in all campaign settings together.

And the only other thing I disliked was the emphasis on the Lady of Pain. I was sort of glad that they at least gave her an alignment in 3e. Why? Well, people complain about Elminster and Drizzt in FR but at least those guys are defined and mortal and have flaws and personalities and definables. The Lady of Pain was defined to be some sort of vague ineffable thing, an "unsolvable mystery" that absolutely nobody and nothing can stop, a deus-ex machina that is cool because it's never defined. Eventually that gets old and boring.

When it becomes forced on other campaign settings, then people can rightfully get mad. I think the disgust with PS was caused by it being (a) forced on all the campaign worlds and (b) making PS feel like it overrides the campaign settings.

I have a feeling it will come back, at least in articles, but I suspect a significant reimaginging just like everything else.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

This, this right here, is why I hate Planescape: the arrogant condescending attitude of Planescape players towards everyone else around them at all times.

And count me as terribly disappointed with this news. I thought we were dumping the nonsense of the Great Wheel. I don't like defacing books generally, but that paragraph is getting Sharpied out of my copy of 4e at the earliest opportunity.

Sigil can very well exist out of a Great Wheel paradygmn, as shown. It's already the case with teh Tree of FR, where a SIgil is too.

 

[IanB]

This, this right here, is why I hate Planescape: the arrogant condescending attitude of Planescape players towards everyone else around them at all times.

And count me as terribly disappointed with this news. I thought we were dumping the nonsense of the Great Wheel. I don't like defacing books generally, but that paragraph is getting Sharpied out of my copy of 4e at the earliest opportunity.

I'm pretty sure he was just making a tongue-in-cheek reference to the Planescape cant. Of course, if you don't understand it I can see how it might come across...

 

[Shemeska]

I felt Planescape's style was then forced on Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and Forgotten Realms (and even more planes)--the outer planes were what PS made them. It was irritating, and it was part of 2nd Ed TSR's ill-themed plan to tie in all campaign settings together.

To be fair to the setting, the various TSR campaign worlds were already tied together within the same cosmology by the later years of 1e when the Manual of the Planes came out, along with the H series of FR module. Planescape just built on that to a much higher degree, with some folks loving it, and other folks decidedly not.

 

[Shemeska]

I'm pretty sure he was just making a tongue-in-cheek reference to the Planescape cant. Of course, if you don't understand it I can see how it might come across...

I took it as a joking reference as well.

 

[Incenjucar]

Percieved Planescape fan arrogance is most often, most likely, just being in character as a Sigilian.

Sigil is, after all, absolutely writhing with Planar hipsters.