D&D 5E (2024) Simplifying Dual Wielding in 5e-2024

[Corinnguard]

Here's how Level Up handled Dual Wielding:

Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a weapon that does not have the heavy property that you are wielding in one hand, you can use your bonus action to attack with a different dual-wielding melee weapon that you are holding in your off-hand. You do not add your ability modifier to the damage roll of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative. If a weapon has the thrown property, you can make a ranged weapon attack with it instead.
If you have the Extra Attack feature, you can use your bonus action to make two attacks with the weapon in your off-hand.

Laser Llama's take on Dual-Wielding:

Dual Wielding​

While two-weapon fighting, you make your off-hand weapon attack as part of the Attack action instead of a bonus action, and can add your ability modifier to the damage of this attack.
When you do, you cannot also make a bonus action attack.

This version allows the player to free up their bonus action for any class feature or spell that requires it.

 

[Horwath]

improved dual wielder feat:
require extra attack
+1 ASI
when you make your off-hand attack with TWF, make two attacks with your off hand weapon


Greater dual wielder feat:
requires improved dual wielder, extra attack(2)
+1 ASI
when you make off hand attack with TWF, make 3 attacks with your off hand weapon

 

[ECMO3]

For something intended to simplify, it seems rather complicated and also prone to exploit, espcially when combined with masteries that are purposely lacking on light weapons (Sap!).

It also does not address what is the biggest complexity problem with the rules, and that is the different damage bonus for different attacks with the same weapon. If we want to simplify dual wielding, here are two options which I think are simpler and would work better:

1. Give all PCs the Two Weapon Fighting feat so there is no jumbling back and forth which attacks use the dex/strength bonus and which don't. This would resolve what is by far the biggest issue with the current dual wielding mechanics.

OR

2. Eliminate any bonus action extra attacks at all other than what you get with your attack action (i.e. dual wielder feat and light properties don't do anything). If you want to attack with more than one weapon on a turn, get extra attack and use the extra attack to use a different weapon in your other hand.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Give all PCs the Two Weapon Fighting feat so there is no jumbling back and forth which attacks use the dex/strength bonus and which don't. This would resolve what is by far the biggest issue with the current dual wielding mechanics.

I this is what I went for in my own homebrew 5e clone. But I also gave everyone two attacks on the attack action at level one, so the damage curve at low levels was less affected.

Meanwhile, while I was working to simplify, WotC was working overtime to come up with ways to make it all more obtuse.

Just letting everyone get the ability score damage on bonus action attacks definitely simplifies the main cause of confusion. I, as someone with considerable 5e experience and rules mastery still occasionally messed up in one direction or the other, forgetting whether a particular character of mine, or an enemy or npc I was running as DM, did or did not get ability score to damage on the bonus action attack (I certainly knew the correct answer when I thought about it, but it's easy to trip on extra little rules while doing math), and it was something I felt like most people I played with messed up more often than me. I also feel like gatekeeping something often highly useful to Rogues and Barbarians but giving it to Fighters at level 1 just discouraged non-multiclassed characters.

 

[Lord Twig]

Stumbled across this thread and it inspired me. Below is the house rule that I came up with for my game. I think it makes things much clearer and allows you to wield two non-light (one-handed) weapons, but it also gives you a reason to use two Nick weapons. So possible combinations are two longswords with the extra attack as a Bonus Action. A rapier and dagger with the extra attack as part of the Attack action to free up your Bonus Action, or two scimitars (there was someone that fought with two scimitars, his name escapes me) with an extra attack as part of the Attack action and a second extra attack as a Bonus Action. And it is super clear that that is exactly how it works.

One side note. I only allow characters to equip or unequip one weapon when they use the Attack action, regardless of the number of attacks they make. This makes the Quick Draw feature of Dual Wielder much more valuable and eliminates the weapon juggling. I do allow characters to drop whatever is in their hand with no action required, but then the weapon is on the ground and anyone can pick it up.

Dual Wielder
General Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+, Strength or Dexterity 13+)

You gain the following benefits.

Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

Enhanced Dual Wielding. You treat all melee weapons that lack the Two-Handed property as if they had the Light property.

Superior Nick. When you have two weapons with the Nick Weapon Master equipped and you make an extra attack from the Light property as part of the Attack action, you can use your Bonus Action to make a second extra attack with the same weapon. You don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.

Quick Draw. You can equip or unequip two weapons that lack the Two-Handed property when you would normally be able to equip or unequip only one.

 

[Steampunkette]

Simpler house rule:

Hand Crossbows don't require a free hand to load because it looks cool and mechanically it's not significantly different than drawing and throwing daggers. Also you can off-hand a hand-crossbow 'cause I say so.

Nick and shoot to your heart's content.

 

[Charlaquin]

Personally, I love 5e 2024 TWF.

Granted, it's because it's hilarious that it's an example of exactly what I said would happen when they "switched to keywords" that somehow "make everything very easy" so the game never has any rules confusion that is "obviously caused by natural language".

It's exactly what many players wished for for all of 5e 2014, even though those of us that played a lot of 3e and 4e tried to explain the problem that keywords create. Gosh, it seems that keywords, the Platonic ideal of synthetic language, turn the game into a rules lawyer puzzle that easily returns answers that break immersion and discourage realism! Wow, if only we knew that from 15 years of gaming experience.

My table simply had a discussion about how we were going to play it. We agreed that Nick + DW intentionally adds another attack, so that you get Attack + Extra Attack + Nick + DW. And then we agreed that there are no stupid weapon drawing exploits because that's not the fiction. We're all reasonable people, so we don't have to hyper codify 10,000 exceptions for the "what if" concern police.

Now I get to just play the game with an established behavior, and I get to watch people online discover the reality of deep keywords. It's great.

Sounds like those terrible, horrible, no good, very bad keywords didn’t get in your way then.

 

[mellored]

like every dual-wielding barbarian miniature ever produced

hamd axd and light hammer are both Light weapons. Barbarian can dual wield those just fine.

Enhanced Dual Wielding. You treat all one-handed* melee weapons as if they had the Light property.

*Yes, technically, this should say "melee weaons that lack the two-handed property"

I think this would be fine as a weapon mastery or fighting style. If you want it as a general feat, then I would add a little more.

Weapon Property Master, level 4 general feat
+1 Dex or +1 Str
At the end of a short rest, choose up to 2 weapons and chose either Heavy, Light, Thrown, or Reach properties to them. While wielding those weapons, they gain that property. This last until you use this feature again.

 

[Steampunkette]

So I accidentally posted the hand crossbow thing in the wrong thread... woops. >.>

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Rather than creating 2 weapon fighting rules, why not create special versions of the weapons. Call them nimble or masterwork or whatever and let them have the light property