Smudges - All Core books

Ditto to the no problems with my 3.5 core books, and thus far no problems with the 4E ones (some slight waviness, but I stick 'em back in the slipcase to flatten out). Quality between the 3.5 and 4E books seems the same to me. But I'm sure the folks complaining have legitimate issues.

KotSF -- now that is a poorly constructed product ... cheap paper and a back page that was mearing before I even flipped to it. Glad to hear they are making adjustments for later modules.

But I wish the 3E/4E books could compare favorably to the quality of my early print 1E PHB and DMG. Those are solidly-printed, textbook-quality books, with sewn bindings, thick textured paper ... guess you give up something to get color.

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First Post
I don't have this problem with my 4e books and haven't had it with any prior editions either. I also live in a desert too, so it's extremely dry here and that may have something to do with it. Same goes for the page wrinkling.

the Lorax

First Post
Yep and yep

I only have a PHB, all I'm likely to buy, and the cover is slightly bowed, the pages are wavy, and the pages are smudgy if I touch the print for more than 5-10 seconds.

I'm tempted to throw in a snide jab here, but am restraining myself. ;)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
But I wish the 3E/4E books could compare favorably to the quality of my early print 1E PHB and DMG. Those are solidly-printed, textbook-quality books, with sewn bindings, thick textured paper ... guess you give up something to get color.

I have to agree with this, my 1E PHB and DMG are both in good condition despite the large amount of abuse they suffered, and after just checking, STILL not smudgy.
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You know, I bet a conversation with the printer's quality engineers would be fascinating.

In the area I work, we have products that are painted to some very exacting specifications, and getting the paint right is a really difficult process. Just changing paint batches can be a headache, and small variations in temperature and humidity at the plant can cause paint application to go all wacky until they figure out the precise flow rate and droplet size to use. Changing from VOC to non-VOC paint was a six month ordeal.

It could be their basic process is sound, but if ink is anything like paint, they could have variations within a day's print run just due to the natural variation of temperature in humidity at the printing location (which is possible even in a closed indoor facility unless they take extreme pains in climate control). I wonder if the conditions of ink dry at the printer could make given sub-lots more or less susceptible to the oils in peoples' hands. If the process is subtle enough, it might not show up in an early print sample -- you'd have to do regular testing to catch it.


First Post
Has anyone heard anything about this recently? Is something being done to make sure the books that are being printed are proper quality (proper binding, proper sealing of inks?). I heard they are using thicker paper, but what about ink smudges? Is that being addressed? Last mention was 'the books don't smudge any more than the 3rd edition ones' which is not only untrue, but also not a very reassuring justification for the fact that some people can't read sections of their books after just a week or two of use.


First Post
After one day, my books looked like I threw them into the bathtub. I couldn't even close one of them. I had to put weights on top to keep it shut. They did get better to the point where I can put then on a shelf without too much fear of the binding exploding, but still look pretty awful.

I have about 50 other RPG books stored in a more humid room, mostly 3.0/3.5 and none of them have had the least bit of trouble.


You know its funny. When I first saw that people where complaining about the paper I thought - these people are so small, they're just looking for problems - but after having the books for a week or so now... I really can't believe how poor the paper quality is. They're smudging just from the sweat on my hands - and no I'm not as fat and sweaty as my avatar.

I heard Wotc is being cheap with some of the minitures as well now...


Yup book smudge here as well, it is disapointing and it didn't happen with 3.5 edition.

I'm like the new edition a lot by the by.


Wavy pages? Check. Smudging? Nope. As far as I'm concerned the books are there to be read and heavily used at the table... I expect them to get tarnished.

Having said that... my original 3.0 and newer 3.5 PHB's are in shockingly good condition for the amount they were used. I think it's obvious which process was better, but I'm not bothered enough to worry about it.

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