Sneak Attack as a Feat

[GuardianLurker]

I've been idlely tossing this idea around in my head for a while; what would be the effect of making Sneak Attack available to other classes with the following feats?

Sneak Attack [General]
Prerequisites : None
Benefit :
Any time the target would be denied their Dexterity bonus to AC, or when the character is flanking the target, the character's melee attack deals an extra 1d6 damage. Only living creatures with a discernible anatomy can be sneak attacked. Creatures that are immune to criticals are also not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The character cannot sneak attack targets with concealment, or whose vital areas are out of reach.
Special :
This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken, the extra damage increases by 1d6. All classes with the sneak attack class ability gain this feat as a bonus feat instead at the same rate. For example, rogues gain this feat for free at first level and every two levels thereafter.


Ranged Sneak Attack [General
Prerequisites : Sneak Attack
Benefit :
The character can use ranged weapons to make sneak attacks out to a range of 30 feet.
Normal :
Sneak attacks are melee only.
Special :
All classes with the sneak attack class ability gain this feat as a bonus feat the first time they would acquire the sneak attack feat as a bonus. For example, rogues gain this feat for free at first level.


what do you think?

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think it may make it too easy for a fighter to encroach a long way into rogues territory if you make it stackable.

I introduced this into my campaign as one of a range of pseudo-class feats a long time ago. It is one of the regional feats in my campaign. The prereqs were set to make it impossible for a non-rogue to be equal to a rogue.

Dirty Fighting [background: Mendonna]
You know where to hit so it hurts

Prerequisites: INT 13+, base attack +4 or more, Mendonnan
Benefit: May add +1d6 sneak attack damage when an opponent is flat-footed (has lost DEX bonus to AC) or flanked. It has exactly the same restrictions that the rogue ability normally has.
Normal: Rogues sneak attack scales up with their level. This doesn't scale and isn't stackable.

Cheers

 

[Crothian]

I tend to agree. Why do you want sneak attack to be a feat? I think answering that question should help in figuring this out.

 

[hong]

I tend to agree. Why do you want sneak attack to be a feat? I think answering that question should help in figuring this out.

I can think of one reason: to give low-level rogues a bit more flexibility in what they can do. If you make sneak attacks into feat slots, you can take other feats if you're willing to do a bit less sneak attack damage.

To maintain class identity, you could make sneak attacks into an exclusive feat, much like Weapon Spec for fighters. If you're going to go this way, it might also be good to make up a pool of bonus feats that rogues can choose from.


Hong "not quite in Malaysia yet" Ooi

 

[GuardianLurker]

I tend to agree. Why do you want sneak attack to be a feat? I think answering that question should help in figuring this out.

Personally, I don't; this is mainly an exercise is rules manipulation as far as I'm concerned. However, the question it's intended to answer is:
Sneak attacks are the primary mechanism for "carefully placed called shots" in 3e; can the ability be divorced from the rogue class as a non-exclusive feat without unduly unbalancing the game?

As for the stacking, a 6th level human fighter who spends all of his general feats on duplicating the rogue's sneak attack ability (since this doesn't qualify as a fighter's bonus) would end up with up with a +3d6 sneak attack. A human rogue who does the same ends up with +7d6, and if he doesn't by extra, ends up with exactly the same. However, the fighter has to spend ALL his feats to end up as good as a rogue who spends none.

BTW, I'd like to point out that this *doesn't* give rogues a bonus feat slots, it just gives them this as a bonus feat.

The question remains as to whether or not this would be a wide enough distinction.

 

[Chacal]

3D6 sneak attack for a 1st level human rogue is too much for my taste.
I've seen on these boards others attempts at making sneak attack a feat.
One had move silently or hide ranks as prerequisites (which is kinda limitating the concept of sneak attacks to surprise attacks)

To avoid too many stacks, you could add the following prereq. :
BAB Greater than number of dice from Sneak attack already existing

so a rogue could take bonus Sneak attack at level 4, 8, 12


[EDIT]
This feat would just be a general feat, and doesn't replace the sneak attack progression of a rogue, which can still be exchanged for other abilities/feats/whatever...
[/EDIT]



Chacal

 

[Krail Stromquism]

They have a feat like this in Rokugan, I think you can take it three times with stacking effect, I forget what the prereqs are though.

I think its better for the classes to keep to their specialties. If you or your player wants to do Sneak Attack damage then take a class or PrC that gives it you. Theres really no reason to make it a feat available to everyone.

There are feats that allow anyone to cast spelss and do extra damage but they are very minor, like Dirty Fighting.

Your better off taking a level in rogue, you get a boost to your Reflex save, Sneak Attack and Skill POints out the wazzoo, all in exchange for a BAB and maybe a Feat. Well worth it!

 

[GuardianLurker]

3D6 sneak attack for a 1st level human rogue is too much for my taste.

Yeah, of course, he'd have to spend *all* his feats on Sneak Attack to do that, which is a fairly hefty price.

To avoid too many stacks, you could add the following prereq. :
BAB Greater than number of dice from Sneak attack already existing

so a rogue could take bonus Sneak attack at level 4, 8, 12

The problem is that this progression is *slower* than the current sneak attack progression for rogues, and one of my goals is to avoid weakening the rogue classes.

How about "Special: You may only take this feat at most once per level." which will avoid the double-spending.

This would cut a d6 off of the fighter, and 2d6 off the maximum for the rogue.

Originally posted by Krail Stromquism
I think its better for the classes to keep to their specialties. If you or your player wants to do Sneak Attack damage then take a class or PrC that gives it you. Theres really no reason to make it a feat available to everyone.

In general I agree with you, which is why this is a theory exercise for me. The point behind this is to explore whether or not there is a viable mechanic for the other alternative. Not everyone agrees with the position you present.

This all started see, when I said "You can't do that", and someone challenged me. After some thought, I realized that *maybe* you could, but that it wouldn't look like what is normally proposed. This is exploring that maybe.

 

[Sanackranib]

sneak attack as a feat

if this powerfull ability is so importent to your players let them multiclass as rogues. or give the rogues extra feats like a fighter, turn undead as a cleric, and the spellcasting abilities of a mage by making all special class abilities feats. all that this will accompolish is you will build a bunch of champoin's type characters. and if that is what you want I would recomend just playing champions. Each AD&D class has its own unique special abilities and when you grant them to other classes you make them less unique. there are feats for everyone to add levels of a 2nd favored class so multiclassing is not the problem for humans that it always was in prior additions.

 

[Jasperak]

I think that all of the classes should have one or two abilities that cannot be gained by any other class without multi-classing. Sneak Attack would not be one.

Although I cannot comment on these feats from a game rule/balance stand point, I can see a Fighter that takes sneak attack without getting all the other undesirable stuff.

Are there any magic items/abilities that grant something similar to sneak attack?