Sneak Attack--Help me stop my DM from banishing it!

[Saeviomagy]

By far the simplest way to slap your DM in the face with the fact that "strikers deal damage" is to play another striker for a night.

A barbarian with avalanche strike and a maul for instance.

 

[Shin Okada]

Well, as others said, show this thread to your DM. He will learn that Rogue is a striker and it is natural for a rogue to be inflicting big damage.

And, while a Drow makes a good Rogue, it does not automatically makes a Uber Rogue. Darkfire may miss. Cloud of Darkness may cause tactical problems from time to time, as it blocks other PCs' line of sight.

Also, making undead or particular kind of monsters immune to sneak attack is really a bad idea. Imagine when you are playing a, say, undead-themed adventure. There are such adventures with good flavor, stories, tricks and prots. But if your DM make undead immune to sneak attack, that adventure will suddenly become just an unreasonable punishment for a player of rogue PC.

I remember the story of a player, who was playing a rogue in 3.0e. He played an undead-themed big-dungeon adventure called "Heart of Nightfang Spire". The dungeon was full of undead monsters, constructs and traps (there were only few living things there). Playing once per month, It took them more than half a year to play that adventure. During that period, he could make almost no sneak attacks at all.

 

[The Little Raven]

Yeah, you're right - I did forget about it. I have used it in game, and I have reminded others at times when it has applied, but Ranger or Warlock, it's a terrible class feature. I'm guessing that is why some of the essential classes just get a flat +1 with weapon attacks.

I'm considering houseruling Prime Shot to apply to whichever target the character has Cursed/Quarried.

I've only seen one player remember it in my 2.5 years of playing 4e, and that was only because he was trying to kill a monster before it finished off the TPK that was occurring. He was scrambling to come up with one additional bonus, and he had to go and read the feature description since he never used it before.

I agree 110% with making Prime Shot a function of Warlock's Curse and Hunter's Quarry, instead of a proximity feature. It makes much more sense that the quarry you are hunting is easier for you to hit because of your focus on it above all others, or the magic of your curse directing your future spells to your foe's lifeforce.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I've only seen one player remember it in my 2.5 years of playing 4e, and that was only because he was trying to kill a monster before it finished off the TPK that was occurring. He was scrambling to come up with one additional bonus, and he had to go and read the feature description since he never used it before.

Yeah, you know a class feature has failed and / or is too fiddly when this is the only time it gets used. This often seems to be when it gets added in my experience as well. My first couple sessions with my Feylock, I made a point of trying to use it, but after that... meh.

I agree 110% with making Prime Shot a function of Warlock's Curse and Hunter's Quarry, instead of a proximity feature. It makes much more sense that the quarry you are hunting is easier for you to hit because of your focus on it above all others, or the magic of your curse directing your future spells to your foe's lifeforce.

I'm glad you agree, and thanks for the feedback on it. I will definitely use this in my game next time I DM (assuming someone plays that has this feature). Works for fluff, works for crunch. Excellent.

If I ever get back to that Feylock of mine, I may see if the DM for that game will houserule it as well.

In fact, I might see if our group's current DM likes it - we have two parties (one low-level, another at the cusp of paragon) and there is a bow Ranger in each group that would probably appreciate that change. She is a very reasonable DM, but doesn't care much for the rules one way or the other.

 

[MrMyth]

I like the concept of Prime Shot - it is a way of encouraging PCs who normally can easily stay away from the most dangerous areas of combat to instead plunge into the thick of thinsgs. But I certainly don't think it should be rated on par with other standard accuracy boosters, and feel there could be a more intuitive way to design it.

 

[Droogie128]

He's level two. There's only so much optimization that can be in place at level two.

A ranger can potentially nova for over 100 damage at level one with Twin Strike, Off-hand Strike, Furious Assault, and Jaws of the Wolf.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

A ranger can potentially nova for over 100 damage at level one with Twin Strike, Off-hand Strike, Furious Assault, and Jaws of the Wolf.

I assume that requires getting three crits? Because that's quite a stretch for "potentially".

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

I've only seen one player remember it in my 2.5 years of playing 4e, and that was only because he was trying to kill a monster before it finished off the TPK that was occurring. He was scrambling to come up with one additional bonus, and he had to go and read the feature description since he never used it before.

I GM a star pact warlock who uses Prime Shot almost every encounter. Both because he hates missing and he is quite willing to take an opportunity attack from a monster that's marked and threatened by the group's fighter.

 

[Aulirophile]

I assume that requires getting three crits? Because that's quite a stretch for "potentially".

8d10 brutal 2+1d6+15 = 78.5 average damage from the above scenario assuming you were optimizing for a level 1 nova and all five attacks hit. Max damage is 101 exactly, you could increase that to 117 max, but your average would be 70.5 (1d12s, but no brutal) . So a bit of an exaggeration, though at level 3 it'd be quite doable as a Ranger.

 

[BobTheNob]

Guys, the OP needed an ethical and conceptual basis for understanding striker damage and its place and application within the 4e framework. 3/4 of this thread is striker mechanics and comparisons, which wont really help the OP at all. Start a new thread if you need