D&D 5E So...warlocks?

[kerbarian]

One option I find intriguing is a chain-pact warlock with Voice of the Chain Master and an Imp or Sprite familiar. For almost every purpose except combat and carrying heavy objects, you get an invisible, flying projection of yourself with unlimited range and no risk. You can teleport your familiar back to yourself at any time (dismiss and recall it), and if it dies you can just re-summon it given an hour and 10 gp.

It will depend a lot on the campaign, but that seems like a very strong ability even into high levels. It's somewhat like Arcane Eye, except it has other senses (and better vision), can move faster and open doors, and you can speak through it and pick up (or drop off) objects. It also lasts longer and can operate without your attention (e.g. "Fly south over the forest for a day and contact me when you spot a tower.").

If the invisible part isn't as important to you, Pseudodragons are also quite nice for their passive Perception of 18 (if the check relies on sight, hearing, or smell).

 

[EroGaki]

One option I find intriguing is a chain-pact warlock with Voice of the Chain Master and an Imp or Sprite familiar. For almost every purpose except combat and carrying heavy objects, you get an invisible, flying projection of yourself with unlimited range and no risk. You can teleport your familiar back to yourself at any time (dismiss and recall it), and if it dies you can just re-summon it given an hour and 10 gp.

It will depend a lot on the campaign, but that seems like a very strong ability even into high levels. It's somewhat like Arcane Eye, except it has other senses (and better vision), can move faster and open doors, and you can speak through it and pick up (or drop off) objects. It also lasts longer and can operate without your attention (e.g. "Fly south over the forest for a day and contact me when you spot a tower.").

If the invisible part isn't as important to you, Pseudodragons are also quite nice for their passive Perception of 18 (if the check relies on sight, hearing, or smell).

You know, that is actually a really cool idea. So far, my favorite pact is Tomb, because I love more cantrips and potentially having access to every ritual in the game. But having an invisible, unkillable spy sounds really handy. I love the arcane eye invocation, but considering you don't qualify until 15th level, and I've yet to play in a game that reached past 13th level, Chain pact might actually become my favorite.

 

[steeldragons]

So far, my favorite pact is Tomb, because I love more cantrips and potentially having access to every ritual in the game.

I presume you mean "Tome"...but now I'm kinda itchin' to come up with a "Tomb" pact...could have some cool possibilities/story hooks/etc...pact with a demi-lich or demon-specializing in undead (Orcus immediately comes to mind)...yes. There are possibilities there.

Thanks!

 

[EroGaki]

I presume you mean "Tome"...but now I'm kinda itchin' to come up with a "Tomb" pact...could have some cool possibilities/story hooks/etc...pact with a demi-lich or demon-specializing in undead (Orcus immediately comes to mind)...yes. There are possibilities there.

Thanks!

Ha! I did indeed me "tome," but now that you point it out, my error is a pretty neat idea for a new pact.

But yes, I tend to favor the "tome" pact for the extra cantrips and the batman utility belt that comes with having access to every ritual in the book.

 

[Neonchameleon]

So now that the PH has been out for close to a week, I'd like to open the thread up to general warlock discussion. What do people think now that we can see all that they can do (and can't do).

Personally, I'm trying to figure out what the warlock's "role" in the party is. They're spell list is kind of wonky, IMO, and they lack a lot of the fun spells other arcane casters get (teleporting and the like).

What I'm doing with mine is an illusionist - when at second level you get Disguise Self and Silent Image At Will (as well as Minor Illusion and Prestidigitatation, and Thaumaturgy at level 3) there's a lot you can do. And Disguise Self At Will is a lot more fun than as a daily ability. They also do get Dimension Door - and teleport is very high level in 5e.

 

[Wyrd_One]

Warlock Questions

Until level 11 you are limited to two spell slots between rests. That is a fairly serious restriction.

Ouch, that's how the spell slots work? I guess I misread the section. I was looking at it like you have one 1st level spell slot at level one, then you get two more 1st level slots at level two, two 2nd level slots at level three, and so on.

So that does seem like a huge restriction. Two spells at level 10? They're both cast at level 5, but a level 10 wizard has those same two 5th level spells, plus three 4th, three 3rd, three 2nd, and four 1st level spells on top of that.

I guess it comes down to how often you take short rests. The warlock gets his 2 slots back, while the Wizard gets 5 spell levels worth of slots back, at least for the first rest.


On a different note, has anyone tried a Fighter/Warlock that takes pact of the blade? The "casting in armor" section suggests if you have proficiency in the armor you can cast in it, so a Fighter could take some heavy armor, a nice martial weapon, and then level into Warlock at second level and continue using those items without hindering their spell-casting abilities at all. If you're goign to take pact of the blade it might as well be with a big two-handed weapon you get to reroll all 1's and 2's on for damage. And at level 5 you can take the invocation that gives you two attacks, just like a fighter gets naturally. Seems like it could be a fun alternative to the Eldritch Knight in terms of a melee caster.


And one more question. I'm assuming they mean Warlock levels, but the prerequisites for a lot of the Invocations simply say "Level 5". Do they mean Character level 5, or Warlock level 5? I didn't see it specifically say only Warlock levels apply anywhere. So could my level fighter 1/warlock 4 take the invocation that gives two attacks with their pact blade?

 

[Dausuul]

On a different note, has anyone tried a Fighter/Warlock that takes pact of the blade? The "casting in armor" section suggests if you have proficiency in the armor you can cast in it, so a Fighter could take some heavy armor, a nice martial weapon, and then level into Warlock at second level and continue using those items without hindering their spell-casting abilities at all. If you're goign to take pact of the blade it might as well be with a big two-handed weapon you get to reroll all 1's and 2's on for damage. And at level 5 you can take the invocation that gives you two attacks, just like a fighter gets naturally. Seems like it could be a fun alternative to the Eldritch Knight in terms of a melee caster.

No matter where you try to go with the bladelock, you find the lack of crucial proficiencies and class features standing in your way. Sword and board? Sorry, you're not proficient with shields. Dual wielding? No fighting styles and the only light weapons you're proficient in do 1d4 damage, so your off-hand attack is only doing 1d4 with no Dex bonus. Hardly worth the trouble. Great weapon? No great weapons are finessable, and you can't pump Strength and Charisma and Dexterity, so heavy armor is essential; but you're only proficient in light. Archery? Pact weapons are melee only, and eldritch blast with Agonizing Blast added does more damage than a bow anyhow.

The general consensus seems to be that you almost have to take a 1-level dip, unless you're willing to blow a bunch of feats. For a great weapon bladelock, the best is probably cleric (with one of the domains that grants heavy armor proficiency); not only do you get the armor you desperately need, but you get the option to cast cure wounds with those fast-refreshing warlock slots. For sword and board or dual wielder, I'd go fighter to get the fighting style. +2 damage to your pact weapon, or +stat damage to your off-hand weapon, is a big deal. (Re-rolling 1s and 2s on your damage dice, not so much.)

Also, glaive with Polearm Master is a very popular great weapon choice. It's especially good once you get Lifedrinker.

And one more question. I'm assuming they mean Warlock levels, but the prerequisites for a lot of the Invocations simply say "Level 5". Do they mean Character level 5, or Warlock level 5? I didn't see it specifically say only Warlock levels apply anywhere. So could my level fighter 1/warlock 4 take the invocation that gives two attacks with their pact blade?

I read it as character level 5, which would mean the answer to your question is yes.

 

[Wyrd_One]

The general consensus seems to be that you almost have to take a 1-level dip, unless you're willing to blow a bunch of feats.

That's what I was trying to say. Take level 1 in Fighter to get all the armor and weapon proficiencies and then start leveling in Warlock and take the Pact of the Blade.

I was just curious if anyone had tried that yet. It seems like it could be a nice alternative to an Eldritch Knight.

 

[bogmad]

I was under the impression that you could pick any type of weapon as your pact weapon and be proficient with it. You aren't proficient with a non-pact greatsword, but you are with the one you summon.
I don't have the PHB here with me, but I thought the language was you can create any weapon in your free hand and you are proficient with it, not "you can create any weapon you are proficient with."

Still doesn't solve the issue of fighting styles or armor [edit: and sure you have to wait til level 3], but that's why you have all that other warlock stuff to balance it out.

 

[kerbarian]

No matter where you try to go with the bladelock, you find the lack of crucial proficiencies and class features standing in your way.

The general consensus seems to be that you almost have to take a 1-level dip, unless you're willing to blow a bunch of feats.

I agree; bladelock can't compete with the melee classes on its own, and you have to go outside the class (by multiclassing or feats) to really make it work. My guess is that the intent is not for it to be a full melee class but to be a hybrid. You're a caster who's also respectable in melee, not a melee class. The other pacts don't really transform the warlock's role either, so I think that's reasonable.

However, I personally find it unsatisfying. If I were to play a bladelock, I'd want melee to be primary for the character rather than secondary, and that's where you run into the troubles you've described. So there's some design space for a melee-primary bladelock that isn't handled by the warlock class but can be handled by a multiclass warlock/X. I guess that's okay.

Due to the Thirsting Blade invocation, bladelocks are uniquely suited to that kind of multiclassing, which helps. Unlike any other class, you can multiclass as a bladelock and still get your extra attack starting at 5th level.