So, wizards fight like fighters?

[hong]

Many of you cited factors like Strength, weapon proficiency, feats, special bonus and so on.

But those parameters exist in 3.5 too, in addition to the bab difference.

And those parameters have been expanded in significance in 4E compared to 3.5.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Many of you cited factors like Strength, weapon proficiency, feats, special bonus and so on.

But those parameters exist in 3.5 too, in addition to the bab difference.

Also: It's all about expanding the sweet spot. D&D in 3E worked best around 4th to 6th level (plus-minus two or three). So on 6th level, a fighter has a BAB of +6. The wizard of +3. Difference? Three points. That's about what proficiency and fighter class bonus adds.

And don't tell me that attacking with a weapon proficient wizard on 6th felt like attacking with a fighter on 6th (in 3E).

To put it in different terns: On a d20, a difference of 1 represents a 5% change. Do you really need a difference of more than 10% - 20% to make clear that one class is better than another? (And that's without damage and hp!)

Cheers, LT.

 

[Aaron]

To put it in different terns: On a d20, a difference of 1 represents a 5% change. Do you really need a difference of more than 10% - 20% to make clear that one class is better than another? (And that's without damage and hp!)

In order to tell that a wizard is not as good as a fighter?

Yes, I prefer to have something more than a mere 10-20%.

But YMMV.

 

[Nifft]

In order to tell that a wizard is not as good as a fighter?

Yes, I prefer to have something more than a mere 10-20%.

If you want to see Wizards and Fighters fight differently, you'll have to use Wizard and Fighter class features ("powers").

If you don't use their class features, they may as well be commoners.

Cheers, -- N

 

[hong]

In order to tell that a wizard is not as good as a fighter?

Yes, I prefer to have something more than a mere 10-20%.

You do get something more than a mere 10-20%. That's what Str bonus, class powers, feats, and damage are for.

 

[WhatGravitas]

In order to tell that a wizard is not as good as a fighter?

Yes, I prefer to have something more than a mere 10-20%.

To clarify - I mean as base (without Strength, magic items, and so on).

If that's still a yes, you must have disliked it on the low- to midlevels in 3E, because the BAB, as outlined above, didn't vary that much.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Bandreus]

4E is exception based. All classes get the same base modifiers, while other factors are going to alter those. What's making the difference is powers/feats selection, really.

If the OP was wondering about the "real" effectiveness in hitting someone while fighting, it would be something to talk about.
The fact is, in 4E, a basic is just that. One basic swing with your weapon (something you'll be basicly using only when taking AoO the most, or otherwise not really often). Consider in 4E full round attacks are totally gone, that's a major point. Now the real difference between what a class can and can't do well, lies in its powers.

With powers out there to make the difference, you see the point in getting rid of different BAB rates. You can't really make assumptions at the numbers without taking powers into account, for the matter of this thread.

 

[Saeviomagy]

In order to tell that a wizard is not as good as a fighter?

Yes, I prefer to have something more than a mere 10-20%.

But YMMV.

Soo - the wizard is
1) pretty damn strong for a wizard
2) specifically trained in a weapon
3) doing his best

and you'd like him to be more than 10-20% different to a fighter who is a bit on the weak side, and barely trying to damage his opponent and who has not invested in any extra feats to cause more damage.

YMMV I guess.

 

[Andur]

Ignore the melee part of it...

Ranged weapons:

Dex 16 using shuriken:

Wizard 1/2 level + 3
Fighter 1/2 level + 3

No exploits or spells for either one to modify anything...

 

[FireLance]

Many of you cited factors like Strength, weapon proficiency, feats, special bonus and so on.

But those parameters exist in 3.5 too, in addition to the bab difference.

To cut a long story short and get straight to the point: there is no BAB difference in 4e.

This is a design principle, not a bug.

So yes, apart from Strength, weapon proficiency, class features and powers, there is absolutely no difference between a fighter and a wizard.