D&D 5E Sorcerer Changes

[Ruin Explorer]

First, what is wrong with Sorcerers as written? They are already a popular choice at many tables.

They underperform mechanically. This has been a concern literally since 5E came out. My experience is that they also underperform at the table. They're not a "trap" option, nothing in 5E is, because everything in 5E is reasonably playable, but they contribute noticeably less than other similar classes, even with the same players.

They're popular because most people who want to play an arcane-type spellcaster will pick them ahead of Wizard, because D&D's idea of what a Wizard is, is a weird Vancian deal, which tends to confuse newer players and often causes distaste in people coming in from fantasy literature and other games. Powergamers will reliably pick Wizards because they're a lot stronger, of course.

 

[TwoSix]

1) Have them recharge all sorcery points every short rest, but they can only spend them on metamagic and sorcery features, not new spells.

2) They can pick their spells from any spell list.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Here's what would interest me. Again, going not for more power, but rather for more differentiation from Wizard:

• More spells known, but from fewer choices. Somehow tailored to fit the flavor of the subclasses.
• A mechanic where you spend an HD to power an ability. The base class has the ability to regenerate sorcery points this way, and each subclass gets an additional ability appropriate to the class. (For example, Draconic could power their breath weapon.)
• EDIT: To compensate for the expenditure of HD, increase HD size to d8

 

[bedir than]

Giving the lowest HP class importance in CON barely increases their toughness. That's a non-issue for me.

 

[jgsugden]

I do not understand why anybody would consider the Sorcerer in need of a fix. Level 1 and 2 are a bit of a weaker situation for you - but not by a meaningful amount. Compared to a wizard, you're in similar shoes at level 1 - expect with a better role in the game with your high charisma. They get a better benefit with their school at 2, but at 3 when you jump to 6 spell slots and your metamagic, you become very, very strong. You can do things no other class can do.

In my experience, level one lasts about 8 hours, and level 2 lasts about 12. That is a very short period of time to be "stuck" at these weaker levels. Heighten, Quicken, Twinned and (in some campaigns) Subtle spell can be game changers.

There is nothing in need of a fix.

 

[Shiroiken]

I don't think that argument works when you can stack so much weight on DEX or CHA, and relatively easily too.

Plus the fact that it's secondary or tertiary actually works against your argument - if that's the case, already probably 14 when the main stat is 16, and will go up after the main stat does, so it doesn't make a huge different go off CON. Again, CHA and DEX can have tons and tons of stuff stacked on them, whereas all CON does is give you a save and HP.

Not sure what you mean by "stacked on," so I can't address that.

Ignoring rolled ability scores (because of the high variance), most characters will max their Con at 14, and a few only have a 12. A barbarian might raise it to 16 after raising their Str up, but not likely higher. A fighter in a featless game would probably raise their Con to 18, but that's because there's not as much use for the extra ASI they get. With a Con based character, they'll eventually have a 20, which means that they will have +3 HP per level more than any other class with the same HD. So with 1d6 HD at +5 Con, they'll add 9 HP per level as a primary caster, while a warrior class with 1d10 HD at +2 Con will be adding 8 HP per level. Most would consider this counter intuitive.

Also, since both HP and combat score are covered, the character can then choose anything they want as their secondary (either +2 or +3). Str and Int are unlikely, but Dex, Wis, and Cha would all be viable, and then another of them would work as a tertiary (+2). So they get all you were talking about, plus extra HP.

 

[Shiroiken]

There is nothing in need of a fix.

The only issue I've seen with the Sorcerer is the sub-classes. The base class if perfectly fine.

 

[Todd Roybark]

They underperform mechanically.

but they contribute noticeably less than other similar classes, even with the same players.

Honestly, this has not been my experience. Bards have few spells known at low level, so their access to Ritual Magic does not magnify the versatility gap in the way a Wizard’s Ritual Magic feature does.

Warlocks....is your argument warlocks outperform Sorcerers?

They're popular because most people who want to play an arcane-type spellcaster will pick them ahead of Wizard, because D&D's idea of what a Wizard is, is a weird Vancian deal, which tends to confuse newer players

Alas, also not my experience. I have had more players new to the hobby play Wizards then ever before.

6 spells isn’t so overwhelming at 1st level. Access to the whole of the Cleric and Druid list, can be a bit daunting for new players.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

For those new to the idea that there are problems with the sorcerer, let me bring you up to speed briefly.

There are a few powerful sorcerer builds that can be made with the right subclasses. A fire-based Draconic is a powerful blaster. A Divine Soul is very flexible in spell selection and mechanical roles. And Twinned Spell plus haste is a mean combo.

That's mostly it.

What you can't do well is something you really should be able to: represent a wide variety of innate magic themes that the class already teases you with but can't deliver on. Storm Sorcerer needs to be able to cast call lightning. Draconics that aren't fire-based need to work. The sorcerer spell list is too small to allow for plenty of perfectly reasonable sorcerer concepts.

Also, outside of those few strong builds, they generally compare poorly to wizards, who are the most directly comparable class.

And that doesn't even include my own couple of pet peeves that are more debatable.

 

[Guest 6801328]

For those new to the idea that there are problems with the sorcerer, let me bring you up to speed briefly.

Oh gee, I can hardly wait to be edified.

There are a few powerful sorcerer builds that can be made with the right subclasses. A fire-based Draconic is a powerful blaster. A Divine Soul is very flexible in spell selection and mechanical roles. And Twinned Spell plus haste is a mean combo.

That's mostly it.

What you can't do well is something you really should be able to: represent a wide variety of innate magic themes that the class already teases you with but can't deliver on. Storm Sorcerer needs to be able to cast call lightning. Draconics that aren't fire-based need to work. The sorcerer spell list is too small to allow for plenty of perfectly reasonable sorcerer concepts.

Also, outside of those few strong builds, they generally compare poorly to wizards, who are the most directly comparable class.

Subjective nonsense. Sure, it would make sense for a Storm Sorcerer to be able to cast call lightning, but that's a flavor issue, not a power one.

Twinned Spell alone is remarkably powerful (not just for Haste) and more than compensates for the Wizard's strengths. It effectively gives a Sorcerer his full level in free spell slots, it doesn't require a short rest, it's equivalent to casting two spells in one turn, and it's the only thing in the game that allows double concentration.

Sorcerers are a little boring, but they're not weak.