D&D 5E Sorcerer Vs Wizard And Why its Closer Than You Think

[FrogReaver]

I don't know who made that claim, but my guess is by looking at "power" mainly as "killing power", and not including utility etc in "power".

In short: the sorcerer might fall short compared to a true wizard. But comes across as very strong compared to, say, an Archer Fighter. They don't just stand there, they shoot somebody; the Sorcerer just does it frighteningly well. And many more times than WotC wants to admit, there is no real cost involved.

At level 5 the sorcerer is barely better at killing things fast than a wizard. You don't even have the slots or sorcery points to use a big strong spells and bonus action cantrip attacks to kill things faster more than 3ish times per day (and that takes nearly all your resources). At some point you may, but not at level 5.

 

[Mort]

At level 5 the sorcerer is barely better at killing things fast than a wizard. You don't even have the slots or sorcery points to use a big strong spells and bonus action cantrip attacks to kill things faster more than 3ish times per day (and that takes nearly all your resources). At some point you may, but not at level 5.

To add, and please correct me if I'm wrong,

Twin spell requires a separate target. So against a big bad, such as the king of feathers, it's almost useless (except where they're surrounded by low hit point rabble).

 

[FrogReaver]

To add, and please correct me if I'm wrong,

Twin spell requires a separate target. So against a big bad, such as the king of feathers, it's almost useless (except where they're surrounded by low hit point rabble).

Presumably you would use twin spell to cast haste on your party in that example. If you really wanted to debuff you would use heightened spell.

 

[jgsugden]

I have trouble believing that most people posting on these threads have actually played a spellcaster.

Wizard: I always have magic at hand with rituals and cantrips. While I can essentially have an unliited number of spells in my spellbook, it doesn't really matter that much as my geatest limitation is the number of spells I can prepare - and the next greatest limitation is the number of spell slots I have. There are a lot of wizards that find they've spent quite a few coins adding to their spellbook - and never getting real use out of them because they can't find the space to prepare them... or, even if prepared, were not used. Also, as the only intelligence focused class, you provide answers that nobody else is likely to have (except perhaps a bard).

Sorcerer: I have more cantrips than the wizard, but my actual spells known are quite limited. I usually know about 50% to 75% of the number of spells that a wizard can prepare... and about 4 slots for every 3 spell slots I have. I can add a level of bard (or warlock) to further expand those cantrips and spell slots slightly, but it is at the expense of access to higher level spells as early as possible. I usually have less spell slots than the wizard per long rest as well... we both have mechanics to regain spells that are comporable - but I typicaally find it better to use those sorcery points on metamagic. I also have a lot of opportunities to be the face of the party with my high charisma. That should not be ignored.

However, we both have a similar core experience. We have a similar number of slots, we have similar spell lists, and we both tend to cast a small selection of spells repeatedly. I know a lot of wizards and sorcerers that use most of their first level slots on shield, made armor and/or absorb elements. The difference in spells known/prepared between the classes manifests in the wizard having a few more flexible spells... not a few more powerhouse spells.

I've played both. I've enjoyed both. Bother were effective PCs ... and though I often found the limitations on both classes frustrating, they were meaningful and made for interesting decisions.

Accordingly, there is no winner.

 

[CapnZapp]

At level 5 the sorcerer is barely better at killing things fast than a wizard. You don't even have the slots or sorcery points to use a big strong spells and bonus action cantrip attacks to kill things faster more than 3ish times per day (and that takes nearly all your resources). At some point you may, but not at level 5.

Sigh. Now you could just say "since every character just about equal at level 1, no class is better than anyone else". At what level are we permitted to discuss class differences...?

(Not that I'm the one saying Wizards are better than Sorcerers, so why do I care...)

 

[CapnZapp]

To add, and please correct me if I'm wrong,

Twin spell requires a separate target. So against a big bad, such as the king of feathers, it's almost useless (except where they're surrounded by low hit point rabble).

You are wrong, not with your rule about metamagic, but when you inferred one of my posts were talking about another of my posts.

 

[FrogReaver]

Sign. Now you're effectively saying "since every character just about equal at level 1, no class is better than anyone else".

(Not that I'm the one saying Wizards are better than Sorcerers)

I don't know how to say this nicely so I'm just going to say it... If that's what you got out of what I said then I think you might have a few neurons misfiring

 

[CapnZapp]

I don't know how to say this nicely so I'm just going to say it... If that's what you got out of what I said then I think you might have a few neurons misfiring

Check my edited post.

 

[FrogReaver]

Check my edited post.

Well at least it reads better. I'm still not following it though.

 

[5ekyu]

I don't know who made that claim, but my guess is by looking at "power" mainly as "killing power", and not including utility etc in "power".

In short: the sorcerer might fall short compared to a true wizard. But comes across as very strong compared to, say, an Archer Fighter. They don't just stand there, they shoot somebody; the Sorcerer just does it frighteningly well. And many more times than WotC wants to admit, there is no real cost involved.

Actually, really, in my experience over-focus on "killing power" is a symptom of the fact that killing power is easy to quantify.

Even if we stay on combat, what often gets undervalued is (for the do-the-mathers) is the impact on victory control has even if it means "less dpr".

In the last two weeks, i saw the ssme final fight taken on by two different groups.

One basically focused on damage kills and finished the fight close to dead with maybe a half-dozen hp between them.

The other group, no foreknowledge, chose to use more control type effects and won the battle pretty handidly, nobody down more that half their hp.

Someone might not think 8 spells i choose each day out of 16 plus rituals is that significsnt compared to six known, but when you have familiars and some utility info spells that couple of spells you swap in for circumstance might not raise your dpr but if it lowers the other sides - its good, maybe real good.

Imo most sorc sub-classes should get the 2 spells per odd level thematic adds (to known) leaving the slots for your choices.

Assuming more significant redo not on the table.