D&D 5E Spellcasters and Balance in 5e: A Poll

[Minigiant]

In 5ed there is no assigned role, all players can play a full caster, all players can play martial. It may cause some glitch, but the DM can handle that easily. So I don’t see why all classes and subclasses should be designed to fit expectation of elite style players

It all comes down to players wanting things that contradict each other.

There is just TOO MUCH D&D fans want the single fighter class to do narratively and mechanically.

It can't be a simple class for noobs and tired folk, a raw roleplay class for skilled play crowd, and a tactical class for strategists that include every single warrior from real world and fantasy.

 

[Campbell]

This is the main issue I think. Classes have meaning and their skills and abilities reflect that meaning. What would a Fighter be good at outside of combat? Stuff related to his fighting obviously, which doesn't really bode well for the exploration and social pillars.

There's some leeway with the subclasses, because those also have meaning. Samurai and Knights traditionally had other non-combat skills. Etiquette and Poetry for example.

Overall physical prowess for one. To be that capable in a fight requires a substantial amount of general athleticism.

More broadly I think most of the issues with out of combat potency for martial characters could be solved by fixes to the skill/proficiency system. That does probably mean spilling some ink to either define what skills are capable of or at least examples that make it clear that results of 25+ are supposed to be suitably impressive.

 

[The Annihilargh]

I feel like in terms of class and subclass features—class-spell lists aside—all the classes are pretty somewhat balanced (except Wo4E monks and lvl 1 rangers).
I feel like the main issue with balancing the spellcasting classes with the non-spellcasting classes are the spell lists.
— Now, balancing aside, there is a noticeable trade off with sorcerers and especially wizards getting such powerful spells at 4th tier: their hit dice. Think of it like this, "If you manage to survive getting to level 17, you get access to nigh-god-level magic."
That being said, I would think it would be better if we altered the casting times of a lot of the spells (mostly the higher-level ones) so we don't always have a "If the wizard (or other spellcaster) goes first, you die." kind of scenario as the party levels up. And also encourage the DM to screw over players if they try to use spells like wish.

 

[Minigiant]

This is the main issue I think. Classes have meaning and their skills and abilities reflect that meaning. What would a Fighter be good at outside of combat? Stuff related to his fighting obviously, which doesn't really bode well for the exploration and social pillars.

There's some leeway with the subclasses, because those also have meaning. Samurai and Knights traditionally had other non-combat skills. Etiquette and Poetry for example.

Isn't that the problem.

That D&D fans insist that the fighter include the thug, duelist, brawler, knight, samurai, raider, keshig, jaguar, brute, militia man, Eldritch knight, rune knight, echo knight, shadow knight, psi knight, and bully?

 

[Maxperson]

Isn't that the problem.

That D&D fans insist that the fighter include the thug, duelist, brawler, knight, samurai, raider, keshig, jaguar, brute, militia man, Eldritch knight, rune knight, echo knight, shadow knight, psi knight, and bully?

Not if all of those are subclasses. It's when they try to apply all of those to the base Fighter class that issues happen. The base class is just beat you up with weapons and associated skills and abilities. It's not really capable of being all those other things, which is why prestige classes, paths/destinies, and subclasses were made.

 

[Undrave]

I feel like in terms of class and subclass features—class-spell lists aside—all the classes are pretty somewhat balanced (except Wo4E monks and lvl 1 rangers).
I feel like the main issue with balancing the spellcasting classes with the non-spellcasting classes are the spell lists.
— Now, balancing aside, there is a noticeable trade off with sorcerers and especially wizards getting such powerful spells at 4th tier: their hit dice. Think of it like this, "If you manage to survive getting to level 17, you get access to nigh-god-level magic."
That being said, I would think it would be better if we altered the casting times of a lot of the spells (mostly the higher-level ones) so we don't always have a "If the wizard (or other spellcaster) goes first, you die." kind of scenario as the party levels up. And also encourage the DM to screw over players if they try to use spells like wish.

It would be interesting if casting was just long enough to be interrupted if your allies aren't good at holding the line. Like... You start to cast your spell and it's more like a ready action and you will let it loose lower on the initiative order. If you take damage before you let it off, you risk losing the spell outright. Or even its magical energy blow up in your face!

 

[The Annihilargh]

Isn't that the problem.

That D&D fans insist that the fighter include the thug, duelist, brawler, knight, samurai, raider, keshig, jaguar, brute, militia man, Eldritch knight, rune knight, echo knight, shadow knight, psi knight, and bully?

I think if a group of players doing homebrew wanted to include something like that to their Fighter, they should just have the option/right to discuss it with their DM instead of making new official content to let the DM feel "oh, this is legal then."

 

[The Annihilargh]

It would be interesting if casting was just long enough to be interrupted if your allies aren't good at holding the line. Like... You start to cast your spell and it's more like a ready action and you will let it loose lower on the initiative order. If you take damage before you let it off, you risk losing the spell outright. Or even its magical energy blow up in your face!

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, x4.
I like your thinking!!!

 

[Maxperson]

Overall physical prowess for one. To be that capable in a fight requires a substantial amount of general athleticism.

Which is built in to a degree. Indomitable is based on that prowess. The Champion gets Remarkable Athlete and Survivor. There is room for more of it, but it's still not going to help much with the exploration and social pillars, and what there is will be mostly in exploration.

More broadly I think most of the issues with out of combat potency for martial characters could be solved by fixes to the skill/proficiency system. That does probably mean spilling some ink to either define what skills are capable of or at least examples that make it clear that results of 25+ are supposed to be suitably impressive.

I think the bolded is the better way to go. Any other fixes will also help the other classes as well, making them even better, so the disparity will remain constant.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Isn't that the problem.

That D&D fans insist that the fighter include the thug, duelist, brawler, knight, samurai, raider, keshig, jaguar, brute, militia man, Eldritch knight, rune knight, echo knight, shadow knight, psi knight, and bully?

While also insisting that 'Fighter' somehow also mean something in universe (that 'coincidentally' keeps them ghettoized to being ineffective outside of combat so the wizard can steal the spotlight), yes. That's pretty much the problem.

In order to get martial characters out from under this, we essentially need to jettison 'Fighter' as a class or at the very least abandon it to the 'simple, mundane, incompetent' bin the fandom constantly tries to drag it into, like the third kill of a horror movie being pulled into the darkness for a trailer shot.