D&D 5E Spells: the Good, the Bad, and the Downright Orcish Grandmother

[Chocolategravy]

Witch Bolt is a "boss killer." It also synergizes very well with other party actions

Anything that has enough HP to last enough rounds that it does reasonable damage sucks up all the encounter XP and so will be the only thing for the party to beat on... so it won't last enough rounds for the spell to do reasonable damage.

Also the spell ends if it runs past an object or steps out of range during part of it's move. Horrible spell.

 

[Runny]

I agree. Magic Missile is much better for tough baddies.

 

[I'm A Banana]

1: BUT THE NUMBERS PROVE OTHERWISE!

If you have a 50% chance to hit the target

...then you probably shouldn't be blowing an Encounter/Daily on it. Cantrip away, you're not wasting anything.

Remember, the context I pointed out included Advantage. If your party can grant you some bonuses to hit and improves your odds of landing any given attack, Witch Bolt becomes a much more appealing option, because you only have to hit with it once. If you don't have any increased chance to hit, you probably shouldn't be blowing anything with a significant cost on that gamble anyway. A single-target attack with a 50% chance to hit that costs a precious spell slot is just hurling resources down the pit.

Also, this % chance is a pretty flawed assumption. Bounded Accuracy means that in practice, there is a rather huge variation in the actual chances to hit any given target, even with an on-par fight.

2: IT IS SO EASY TO COUNTER!

the spell ends if it runs past an object or steps out of range during part of it's move. Horrible spell.

Remember, the context I pointed out included being in melee with the front line. Not exactly the best place for being able to move around. You could swap in any immobilizing or movement-limiting effect for that. And, again, WB is more effective than many other things you could do in that situation, thanks to it being single-target (ie, it doesn't hit friendlies) and only requiring one hit to do multiple turns of damage without a save.


3: IT TAKES TOO LONG!

Anything that has enough HP to last enough rounds that it does reasonable damage sucks up all the encounter XP and so will be the only thing for the party to beat on... so it won't last enough rounds for the spell to do reasonable damage.

Remember, the context I pointed out was a "boss"-class monster. That is, a monster designed to be able to take a party's beating and keep on ticking. 1d12 damage is a whole lot more than the ZILCH damage you'd get on a miss.

Verdict
Overall, WB isn't great in a vacuum. But gameplay doesn't actually happen in a vacuum. If you can't be bothered to account for the context of an entire party being up against many different kinds of combats and how that might affect the desirability of the spell, that doesn't mean it's actually terrible. It just means your field of view is too narrow. Not everything is a wizard and a goblin in a blank 10 by 10 room. Most things aren't, actually.

I mean, I didn't think unseen servant was any real great shakes, but I've got a DM who uses a lot of traps in his most recent dungeon, and this bad boy doesn't cost anything to appearify, so an extra pair of hands whose life doesn't matter has been worth more than my minotaur bard's weight in clerics. I've taken both Blade Ward and True Strike as well (though I haven't had much cause to use the latter yet), and I don't regret either choice. Which is just a roundabout way to say that I'm really suspicious of theorycraft claims of something's awfulness. Way too much variation and way too early to make an absolute statement like that, in my mind.

Ultimately, most of these Orcish Grandmothers probably have hearts of...well...if not gold, perhaps brass, anyway.

 

[MrMyth]

I think the issue with Witch Bolt is that it *could* be awesome, but has a few too many weaknesses. If the sustained damage scaled when cast at higher level, it might be worth it. If it wasn't so trivial for the enemy to get out of range and break it, it might be worth it. If it had some effect on a miss, it might be worth it. If the range wasn't so extremely short, it might be worth it.

But with all of those issues combined, it seems a really lackluster choice. And it does feel like all it would take would be a bit of tweaking to make it more worthwhile - either letting the ongoing damage scale, or letting you recast it for the duration if you miss, or giving some rider (like Shocking Grasp's "No Reactions") to spruce it up a bit.

Reading back to the start of this thread, I was initially surprised to see the mention of Mordenkainen's Sword as a bad spell, since I figured a spell that gives an ongoing bonus action (for decent damage) was rather cool. Then I compared it to Spiritual Weapon. Which, if cast in a 6th level slot (as compared to 7th for the Sword) does generally more damage (3d8+Stat vs 3d10), doesn't require Concentration, and doesn't need a Material component. So... yeah, does seem like they dropped the ball, especially when comparing some higher level spells to lower-level spells that can be prepped at higher levels.

 

[Dausuul]

After reading this thread, I'm wondering if you guys have thoughts on this possible tweak to Witch Bolt:

For the duration of the spell, you may make a ranged spell attack against a target in range for 1d12 damage. After hitting a target, you can, on the next turn, sustain the damage as an action, doing 1d12 automatic damage to the target. If you do not choose to sustain the damage, or if the target at any point moves out of range of the spell or takes total cover, then you can no longer sustain the damage and must make another spell attack against them if you wish to do damage to them again.

This version is considerably stronger. It does something similar, but allows you to switch targets and re-attack the same target if they move away. It also makes the spell more useful in fights against larger numbers of weaker enemies, since it doesn't end as soon as the target goes down. You can also do other stuff in between attacking with it, at the cost of losing your auto damage.

I would simply make witch bolt a cantrip and slash the damage to 1d6, with the usual scaling factor applied to both initial and ongoing damage (so 2d6 initial and ongoing at level 5, 3d6 at level 11, etc.).

 

[Sword of Spirit]

In Cragmaw Castle our Arcane Trickster tried to witchbolt Vyerith in the room with king Grol. Due to the room being pretty packed with Vyerith stuck behind our front line and unable to really duck out of the way without taking an opportunity attack from the cleric's longsword, it would have actually worked out really well. Unfortunately, his attack roll missed.

In better news, his first spell was a successful Tasha's hideous laughter on Grol, which basically kept him out of the fight until we had defeated pretty much all of his minions (and he had a couple more than were in the room due to monsters moving around).

 

[MistrOrnge]

I have successfully used True Strike with my Arcane Trickster to get my Sneak Attack damage every other round and with Sharpshooter using the +10 damage I am very deadly.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I have successfully used True Strike with my Arcane Trickster to get my Sneak Attack damage every other round and with Sharpshooter using the +10 damage I am very deadly.

The response is that, statistically, you would do more damage on average if you skipped True Strike and just made less accurate attacks with Sneak Attack. You'd miss more often, but it would still end up doing more damage. (Keep in mind that by using True Strike you are effectively automatically"missing" every other round, and that by attacking each round you will overall hit more often.)

 

[MistrOrnge]

If you have access to locations to Hide. In the situation I was in it have only been a normal attack each round. Statistically I think I came out ahead counting Sneak Attack.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

A normal attack each round is statistically superior to an attack with advantage every other round. It is preference whether you want to do it that way (feel free to go for the flavor of prepping your attack by using true strike, nothing wrong with sacrificing a bit of effectiveness for the sake of cool) but the math is not disputable.