Star Wars what if. Qui Gon doesnt die.

[Hecabus]

All the answers

Ok....answers according to me!!!

I think the reason people do not sense the force in Senator Palpatine, is that he is not a trained force user. We know that Darth Sidious is very strong in the force and we know from several of the books that the Emporer made extensive use of clones, inhabbiting new bodies as his overwhelming force powers destroyed the body he was in. The Senator clone is just an evil clone. It may seem far-fetched, but search your heart for you know it to be true (ok, cheesy semi-quote).

It has been stated that a great darkness was killed on Dagobah and that is how Yoda staid hidden for some many years (his good was overshadowed or balanced by the darkside).

That leaves just a few options for what happens there, my guesses are:

Yoda kills Darth Tyranous on Dagobah. All of the Jedi (trained?) were hunted down by Darth Vader and slain.

Yoda kills a clone of Darth Sidious, activating his conciousness in Senator Palpatine.

or Anakin kills Darth Tyranous/a Clone/or Padmae. I doubt this one as Vader would know there should be a negative "cloud" on Dagobah and Princess Leah mentions seeing her mother.

 

[John Crichton]

Re: All the answers

I think the reason people do not sense the force in Senator Palpatine, is that he is not a trained force user. We know that Darth Sidious is very strong in the force and we know from several of the books that the Emporer made extensive use of clones, inhabbiting new bodies as his overwhelming force powers destroyed the body he was in. The Senator clone is just an evil clone. It may seem far-fetched, but search your heart for you know it to be true (ok, cheesy semi-quote).

Just figured that I'd mention that all of the non-movie based books are not considered cannon (as stated by Lucas). I'm interested to see if Palpatine and Sidious are actually the same person like most of us think they are. As far as the Jedi not being able to tell what he is: They said in both movies that their force abilities have been weakening for some time. And because evil in inherently deceptive, the Sith probably have the ability to cloud their true nature from other force sensitive folks (even powerful Jedi).

 

[Alzrius]

Re: Re: All the answers

Just figured that I'd mention that all of the non-movie based books are not considered cannon (as stated by Lucas).

Not to say I don't believe you here John, but, well...I don't believe you. There are inconsistencies in some places true, but Lucas is totally anal about everything Star Wars being run past his desk first. The way I heard it, one of the contributing reasons he decided not to do movies 7, 8, and 9 was because the books had already charted out where things would go, so there was less reason to make movies of them.

That said, do you have a link to where Lucas says the books aren't official?

Minor rant here: people, the word is "canon" not "cannon"! How can you talk about what's official and what's not if you can't even get the word for official correct?! Eesh...

 

[Alzrius]

disagree... Qui Gon wasn't nearly as strong in the force. He often mistook things. He was so certain that Anakin would bring balance to the force that he willfully defied the jedi council. Qui Gon was "higher level", but I think Obi-Wan's connection to the force is much greater, as is Anakin's over Obi-Wan's, etc...

I think if Qui Gon had gotten his hands on the boy, Palpatine might have been able to work control of BOTH of them over to him... especially since Darth Tyrannus trained Qui Gon (if I'm not mistaken).

Totally disagree here. According to the novels, the thing is that Qui Gon follows a different "sect" in approach to the Force. Whereas most Jedi learn of and practice being in tune with the Unified Force, which includes things such as divining the future, learning from the past, etc. Qui Gon was all about the Living Force, which placed more emphasis on the here and now than looking for a larger, holistic picture (very much like the Transcendant Order faction from Planescape). He was less about Force tricks and such as he was things involved with being in the now, such as combat and awareness of what's going on around him. It's the difference in views and philosophy that led him to defy the Jedi Council.

I think he would have been able to easily rebuff any attempts at being "controlled" by Sidious (I won't call him Palpatine, since George stubbornly insists on suspending disbelief, leading me to believe something is up), since his mindset is different from other Jedi, more at peace. He's also less of a hard-liner than Obi-Wan turned out to be, so he isn't as easy to manipulate.

 

[John Crichton]

Re: Re: Re: All the answers

Not to say I don't believe you here John, but, well...I don't believe you. There are inconsistencies in some places true, but Lucas is totally anal about everything Star Wars being run past his desk first.

This is simply not true. Lucas does not see every Star Wars book published. You don't have to believe me but every single book in the "extended universe" is not official Star Wars canon.

The way I heard it, one of the contributing reasons he decided not to do movies 7, 8, and 9 was because the books had already charted out where things would go, so there was less reason to make movies of them.

This has never been proven. There are multiple theories about the sequels to the original trilogy. Aside from what Lucas has said (he says he currently has no need for more than 6 movies) one can believe whatever he or she wishes. [EDIT - Possible answer. ]

That said, do you have a link to where Lucas says the books aren't official?

Yes, I just did a quick google.com search. Altho this is not where I learned this fact. It's something I have known for some time. I'm sure I could find a few more sources if I looked hard enough.

Minor rant here: people, the word is "canon" not "cannon"! How can you talk about what's official and what's not if you can't even get the word for official correct?! Eesh...

Sorry for the extra "n." Didn't mean to offend.

:: edited for minor grammar & an addition ::

 

[Alzrius]

Re: Re: Re: Re: All the answers

This is simply not true. Lucas does not see every Star Wars book published. You don't have to believe me but every single book in the "extended universe" is not official Star Wars canon.

John, that link you included was just to a fan-made website. While they certainly do know their stuff, they aren't the last word on what's canon and what isn't.

Luckily, the other link you provided to starwars.com was more helpful. Going back and looking through their question archives, I stumbled on this:

http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/steve/askjc20010817.html

So basically, here's how it breaks down: In the strictest sense, only the movies are canon. No novels, comic, game, or what have you, is official, not even novelizations of the movies. In a slightly less stringent sense though, since LucasBooks (though not George himself, though he has given his implied approval to LucasBooks, basically letting them make decisions in his name) is the ones who review stuff, they have declared that almost everything, the books, comics, and what have you, is in the continuity, except things marked with the "Infinities" logo. Thus, we know that almost all of it is indeed canon, novels included.

 

[Welverin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: All the answers

*snip*
they have declared that almost everything, the books, comics, and what have you, is in the continuity, except things marked with the "Infinities" logo. Thus, we know that almost all of it is indeed canon, novels included.

Continuity is not the same as canon.

Things that stick to continuity don't contradict each other, at least that's the idea, and build on each other. The non-infinities SW products do this. South Park and the Simpsons do not, though they do occasionally bring things up from previous episodes they'll break what continuity there is if it suits the current story, which is something the SW stuff won't do.

Canon is the core parts of a setting, or what have you, that you can count on be true and everything esle is based off of. In SW that would be the movies, for the Forgotten Realms that would be the FRCS. For SW anything that's not one of the movies, like the novels, comics, anything fan made is no-canon. For FR anything not made by WotC isn't be canon.

Say two people are arguing about what Obi-wan is like if one brings up something in a book as part of his argument and the other contrdicts that by mentioning something in a movie, the guy who references the movie wins.

 

[John Crichton]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: All the answers

John, that link you included was just to a fan-made website. While they certainly do know their stuff, they aren't the last word on what's canon and what isn't.

Where they reference facts stated by Lucas and other researchers. Just because it is a fan-site doesn't invalidate the movies being canon and everything else being simply extra.

So basically, here's how it breaks down: In the strictest sense, only the movies are canon. No novels, comic, game, or what have you, is official, not even novelizations of the movies.

That was my point. You can say what you wish about the novels, comics, etc. Lucas does not consider them part of Star Wars canon. And that is what rules here because that was my original point. Not what I thought was canon but what the main man said was canon.

In a slightly less stringent sense though, since LucasBooks (though not George himself, though he has given his implied approval to LucasBooks, basically letting them make decisions in his name) is the ones who review stuff, they have declared that almost everything, the books, comics, and what have you, is in the continuity, except things marked with the "Infinities" logo. Thus, we know that almost all of it is indeed canon, novels included.

This is contradictory to what Lucas has stated. I ask that it be stricken from the record, your honor.

Honestly, if you have fun with the extended stuff and want to consider it part of the universe you know and love I say go for it. Life is too short to not have as much fun as possible.

I suspect everyone's view of Star Wars is a bit different, especially if they have read any of the extended stuff. However, those items shouldn't be used to determine what will happen in the movies unless stated specifically by Lucas.

 

[Villano]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: All the answers

So basically, here's how it breaks down: In the strictest sense, only the movies are canon. No novels, comic, game, or what have you, is official, not even novelizations of the movies. In a slightly less stringent sense though, since LucasBooks (though not George himself, though he has given his implied approval to LucasBooks, basically letting them make decisions in his name) is the ones who review stuff, they have declared that almost everything, the books, comics, and what have you, is in the continuity, except things marked with the "Infinities" logo. Thus, we know that almost all of it is indeed canon, novels included.

Sorry for jumping in on this conversation so late, but I've been sick as a dog since Friday, so my online time was cut down this week (actually, my "feeling like doing anything at all" time was cut down ).

Proof that what's in the books isn't necessarily cannon can be served up in the form of one Uncle Owen.

I used to have a book which listed all the Star Wars characters from the films, book, comics, etc.. I can't recall the title, but it was an official book.

Anyway, that book claimed that Uncle Owen was the brother of Obi-Wan. Obviously, one of the books or comics must have established this "fact". As we see in the new films, that isn't the case now.

Part of these changes makes sense. I mean, SW has been around for decades, and in that time Lucas could rethink things and redo them for the films.

I may not agree with his new ideas (midoclorians, Jar-Jar, Anakin as a dork, etc.), but I think he made the right decision here.