Star Wars what if. Qui Gon doesnt die.

[John Crichton]

I actually think that if he lived he would have be the one to fill Luke's role as a balance to the Force.

Not to nitpick...

It's my understanding that Luke didn't balance the force, Anakin did. When Anakin/Vader was finished with the Jedi purge there were basically 2 Sith and 2 Jedi left. That's balance.

 

[Villano]

Not to nitpick...

It's my understanding that Luke didn't balance the force, Anakin did. When Anakin/Vader was finished with the Jedi purge there were basically 2 Sith and 2 Jedi left. That's balance.

Hmmm...I thought that "balancing the force" meant a balance between light and dark sides in one being (or the elimination of the light and dark sides altogether and the creation of a new jedi order). However, I'm not a huge fan of Star Wars (I've seen the movies, collected a few of the Dark Horse comics, and still have all my old action figures), so I may be wrong.

Actually, saying that Anakin would balance the force and implying that it would be a good thing, only to have it mean killing a whole bunch of people seems way too ironic for Lucas (I don't think that Lucas really understands irony).

True, when he killed Obi Wan while Luke began training returned the balance to 2 (Palpatine & Vader and Yoda & Luke), he totally screwed up that balance when he killed the Emperor and himself. In the end, he left just Luke.

Granted, you could argue that Vader and Luke were the only ones left initially, but Vader had turned by that point, which possibly means 2 light (3 if you count Leia) and 0 dark.

But, like I said, I'm not really knowledgable on the subject of Star Wars, so I might be arguing against official "cannon" (although Lucas seems to change that at the drop of a hat).

 

[jdavis]

I never really understood the whole bring balance to the force thing, like so many things (miticlorians) this sort of just sprouted up in Phantom Menace. My understanding of the theme of the whole series was that is was about the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker, and to a lesser extent the fall and redemption of the Galactic Republic. I really didn't see where the problem was the Jedi, the problem was the Republic was corrupt. The Jedi continued to fullfill their function while the Republic fell apart around them. The problem with the Jedi was that they were not able to repair the corrupt government as interfering with a democracy went against the very core of their belief system. They were is sort of a catch 22 position. Anakin was different in that he believed the Jedi should force the Republic to clean up his act. The idealistic seed for his turn was well in place before Shimi was killed, he believed in peace through force which resembles a dictatorship, I'm sure Palpatine also worked on Anakin's belief system to help him come to that conclusion, he skillfully manipulated everything else. It probably stands to reason that he may of been behind what happened to Shimi, he had started to turn the mind, Shimi's death started to turn Anakin's heart.

Back to the question origionally raised, would Qui Gon of done better than Obi Wan? I don't see where anybody in either movie so far has been even close to outsmarting Palpatine, he might of done things differently but I think Que Gon would of been no match for Palpatine either, particularly since nobody even realized what was going on behind their backs. Remember the Emperor could fortell the future just the same as Yoda could.

 

[John Crichton]

Hmmm...I thought that "balancing the force" meant a balance between light and dark sides in one being (or the elimination of the light and dark sides altogether and the creation of a new jedi order). However, I'm not a huge fan of Star Wars (I've seen the movies, collected a few of the Dark Horse comics, and still have all my old action figures), so I may be wrong.

Actually, saying that Anakin would balance the force and implying that it would be a good thing, only to have it mean killing a whole bunch of people seems way too ironic for Lucas (I don't think that Lucas really understands irony).

True, when he killed Obi Wan while Luke began training returned the balance to 2 (Palpatine & Vader and Yoda & Luke), he totally screwed up that balance when he killed the Emperor and himself. In the end, he left just Luke.

Granted, you could argue that Vader and Luke were the only ones left initially, but Vader had turned by that point, which possibly means 2 light (3 if you count Leia) and 0 dark.

But, like I said, I'm not really knowledgable on the subject of Star Wars, so I might be arguing against official "cannon" (although Lucas seems to change that at the drop of a hat).

Actually, I really don't think there is a right or wrong in the point you are making. The beauty of Star Wars is the interpretation of what's on the screen rather than what Lucas intended or didn't intend.

I just mentioned the way I saw things, but I do believe there are multiple viewpoints that make just as much sense. Considering that the Force is such an abstract thing, well-mannered debate is encouraged. Like this thread is a perfect example. Reading it was fun for me because people's points were well thought out and expressed in a civil way.

 

[Ysgarran]

disagree... Qui Gon wasn't nearly as strong in the force. He often mistook things. He was so certain that Anakin would bring balance to the force that he willfully defied the jedi council. Qui Gon was "higher level", but I think Obi-Wan's connection to the force is much greater, as is Anakin's over Obi-Wan's, etc...

I think if Qui Gon had gotten his hands on the boy, Palpatine might have been able to work control of BOTH of them over to him... especially since Darth Tyrannus trained Qui Gon (if I'm not mistaken).

Here is a very interesting bit that I missed until I watched the movie in French with English subtitles.

When Anakin goes on his killing spree in the desert the scene switches back Yoda and Mace Windu. During that switch-over it is QUI GON who is yelling "Anakin! Anakin! Noooooo!". I wish the movie itself would have been more obvious with this so I would have caught the first time I saw the movie in English.

I doubt that Qui Gon would have been turned myself.

later,
Ysgarran.

 

[Khorod]

Its sorta the cheesy solution, but I interpret the balance of the force as being a multi-generational prophecy.

Anakin reduced it to light vs. dark, and Luke restored balanced caretakers of the force.

In Progress Edit: The shifting, discontinuous, Child of Light concept from the Belgariad/David Eddings... ?

The dark side is all well and good, but the Emperor, and maybe Sith in general, seem a little more flagrant and unbalancing than the more mystical and tranquility-oriented Jedi tradition.

Don't have direct knowledge at all of the New Jedi Order stuff, but maybe the next evolutionary step is Gray Jedi?

 

[Welverin]

It's my understanding that Luke didn't balance the force, Anakin did. When Anakin/Vader was finished with the Jedi purge there were basically 2 Sith and 2 Jedi left. That's balance.

plus this:

Hmmm...I thought that "balancing the force" meant a balance between light and dark sides in one being (or the elimination of the light and dark sides altogether and the creation of a new jedi order). However, I'm not a huge fan of Star Wars (I've seen the movies, collected a few of the Dark Horse comics, and still have all my old action figures), so I may be wrong.

When it comes to analyzing what effect balancing the force has in the movies you have to look at what Lucas means by it. What means by it is the elimination of the darkside in it's entirety, and Anakin does accomplish that by turning away from the darkside and killing Palpatine in RotJ, thus eliminating the only darksiders.

This theory of balancing the force is something no one ever thinks or seems to agree with when they know about it (never made much sense to me, either). I while reading this thread and thinking of a reply I finally thought of what Lucas might be mean by it. I believe what's going on is in it's natural state the force is stable when there is no darkside presence (like spinning plate on a stick), thwo a little dark side action on there and everything goes out of whack and the plate starts to fall over. Remove the DS influence and everything straightens out. I'm so proud of myself for finally thinking of something that might explain Lucas' thinking on this.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

So by your theory it was not so much balancing the force as it was a cleansing of the force.

When it comes to analyzing what effect balancing the force has in the movies you have to look at what Lucas means by it. What means by it is the elimination of the darkside in it's entirety, and Anakin does accomplish that by turning away from the darkside and killing Palpatine in RotJ, thus eliminating the only darksiders.

This theory of balancing the force is something no one ever thinks or seems to agree with when they know about it (never made much sense to me, either). I while reading this thread and thinking of a reply I finally thought of what Lucas might be mean by it. I believe what's going on is in it's natural state the force is stable when there is no darkside presence (like spinning plate on a stick), thwo a little dark side action on there and everything goes out of whack and the plate starts to fall over. Remove the DS influence and everything straightens out. I'm so proud of myself for finally thinking of something that might explain Lucas' thinking on this.

 

[John Crichton]

cleansing of the force.

Not to sound juvenile, but that just sounds wrong. LOL ok, sorry. I digress...

Anyway, I still think Anakin/Vader was actually the chosen one and Qui-Gon was right about him. He balanced things out, just not in a good way. Almost like natural selection. One of the species comes along and is so powerful that it instigates change. Or somethin' like that.

:: edited to make sense ::

 

[Welverin]

So by your theory it was not so much balancing the force as it was a cleansing of the force.

If you want to put it that way.

I'll have to see where I heard/read Lucas state what he means by balancing the force. Personally I have no opinion on the matter since my normal way of thinking of balance (equal amounts on both sides) so obviously doesn't work in this case.