Stat requirements

[IcyCool]

Sorry, I don't understand the reference.

You said 'alternative' rather than 'alternate'.

Alternative being the type of music that Green Day is mostly famous for.


What? I thought it was funny.

 

[KarinsDad]

Does this reasoning apply to the wizard/bonusspell scenario. The bonusspells should go away, but I´m not sure so I´ve to ask.
Another Brak flashback: would he drop to -7 (and most likely die) if the he´s the victim of a targeted Dispel Magic? And the bonusspells would be gone for 1 d4 rounds?

The point is that there are no rules for bonus spells and ability enhancing items and how they interact.

The FAQ states that any bonus spell slots gained due to the item starting with unused spells are lost if the item is lost.

This does not state whether they are regained if it was merely a few round Dispel Magic on the item.

A given DM not reading the FAQ might rule that cast spells are lost since there are no rules on it.

So, whether you gain bonus spells at all with an item, lose bonus spells permanently or temporarily if you do gain them, and whether those are uncast spells or cast spells is totally up to the DM. There are no rules on any of this.

 

[IanB]

That that kind of "risk" was very easily taken advantage of, and could be seen as picking on the character when the gamble didn't pay off. It's one thing to have an ability negated by a monster as a plot point or adventure challenge (like a Beholder's Anti-Magic cone, or the "you wake up naked" adventure hook), but it's another to have an unusual vulnerability like that. Now either the DM avoids Dispel Magic or Anti-Magic situations or else it has a compounded affect on the risk taking character, which could be perceived as intentionally punishing a character for obtaining a feat/PrC this way.

The only real vulnerability though, is anti-magic zone effects and the possibility of getting that 1 on a reflex save and losing the item. An item won't be suppressed by an area dispel; you have to specifically target the item. I really think the odds of an NPC not having anything better to do than to target a stat boosting item (if the NPC could even know what it does) and getting no other use out of the dispel magic are going to be very slim in most games.

 

[Twowolves]

The party almost died because the NPCs were stronger (and the PCs knew this ahead of time) and this player was worried about getting wet.

It's like watching the Keystone Kops some days.

It's been my experience that the best way to put the fear of the Gods into some characters is to threaten to get them wet. Want a section of Dungeon to go unexplored indefinately? Make them go through 50' of underwater passage to get there and it'll be pristine real estate for ages.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Does this reasoning apply to the wizard/bonusspell scenario. The bonusspells should go away, but I´m not sure so I´ve to ask.

Yep. When you take off the amulet / headband, any bonus spells it gave you go away. When you put it back on, you gain the capability to get new slots / spells per day, but they don't refresh until you rest, so ...

Another Brak flashback: would he drop to -7 (and most likely die) if the he´s the victim of a targeted Dispel Magic? And the bonusspells would be gone for 1 d4 rounds?

The bonus spells would be gone permanently (or, at least, until the wearer rested again).

Brak's a more interesting case. When the amulet is dispelled, his Con drops, and so his current and max HP drop by 4. He falls unconscious and is bleeding. However, the targeted dispel only lasts for 1d4 rounds.

If a 1 is rolled on the dispel period, then one round later, he gains 2 points of Constitution back, gains 4 hit points and may, depending on his bleeding roll, pop right back into action at 1 HP.

In other words, so long as he doesn't lose more than 1 hit point to bleeding (or opportunistic enemies!) while he's down due to Con loss, he'll recover as soon as the item starts working again. Should he only lose 1 hit point, he'll wake up staggered. More than that, however, and he's going to be unconscious - and, since he's only got a 7 hit point window between where he is at the initial dispel point and death, it's going to be a close one.

 

[IanB]

Another Brak flashback: would he drop to -7 (and most likely die) if the he´s the victim of a targeted Dispel Magic? And the bonusspells would be gone for 1 d4 rounds?

If Brak is the target of a targeted Dispel Magic, there is no effect.

If the amulet is the target of a targeted Dispel Magic, then he's in trouble.

 

[KarinsDad]

The bonus spells would be gone permanently (or, at least, until the wearer rested again).

And you got this rule from where?

Even the FAQ entry does not state that the lose is permanent in the case of a targeted Dispel.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

And you got this rule from where?

Inference.

While the object is inactive, you no longer have those spell slots. They, quite simply, no longer exist.

The rules on preparing spells / resting tells you when you get your spell slots back.

EDIT:

Include, of course, that spells from bonus slots are cast first. So if you have 1 + 1 3rd-level spells, and cast Fireball, and then lose your bonus slot, you do not lose your remaining memorized spell.

EDIT 2:

Consider the following:

A sorceror is traveling through town, when he comes to a magic shoppe. He buys a headband of +2 Charisma, which grants him one additional bonus 3rd-level spell slot.

Can he cast one more fireball today, or must he wait until tomorrow, after he has rested?

EDIT 3:

Consider, also, the following: "Certain other events, such as the effects of magic items or special attacks from monsters, can wipe a prepared spell from a character’s mind."

Wouldn't losing the bonus spell slots provided by a magic item fall under such a rule?

 

[Twowolves]

So it could be perceived as 'picking on them.' If the individual who is taking this risk is prone to feeling like the DM is 'picking on them', the DM should probably just get rid of said player. Your example has, IMO, less to do with the fun of taking risks, and more to do with the lack of fun of dealing with a whiny player who wants to get their way.

The same kind of whiny player that would try to get a feat/PrC his character doesn't really qualify for by using a magic item or spell as a proxy for meeting a prerequisite? I agree, best to not deal with this kind of player. Ruling that you can't use magic items to meet prerequisites nips that in the bud.

Do you have a different example of how taking risks isn't fun?

Yes, and I listed them in post 221. Risks taken by a character in game can be fun, risks taken by a player while sitting at the table leveling up his character in a questionable way, not so much fun.

 

[IcyCool]

The same kind of whiny player that would try to get a feat/PrC his character doesn't really qualify for by using a magic item or spell as a proxy for meeting a prerequisite? I agree, best to not deal with this kind of player. Ruling that you can't use magic items to meet prerequisites nips that in the bud.

Isn't that a bit like treating the symptom rather than the disease? I'd prefer just not to play with the whiny player. A player is still welcome to gain the benefits of feats and PrC through the use of magic items, but it's risky. And you can bet that at least once, the DM will take advantage of that risk. You've essentially built a flaw into your character. If it doesn't cause you any difficulty, it's hardly a flaw now, is it?

Yes, and I listed them in post 221. Risks taken by a character in game can be fun, risks taken by a player while sitting at the table leveling up his character in a questionable way, not so much fun.

So you believe that risks taken by a player aren't fun? Or did I miss something in there? Also, you may note that I asked for another example of why taking risks isn't fun, not why it is.