Sunder Question...

[Jimlock]

Sundering something doesn't necessarily mean hacking it till it breaks. That shield, for example, could easily be made 'useless' by severing the straps that hold it to the forearms. Or by punching your dirk into one of the seams that hold the boards together, then leveraging laterally. Rolling that 6 on the damage roll (max damage) could easily be interpreted as "you get a good grip on his left forearm with your free hand, then quickly slice his shield straps. The targe is now practically useless...", or "you tackle him and PUNCH your dirk right through his shield. Two or three sideways heaves later, part of the shield's wood splinters off. Your opponent shakes the ruined targe off his arm in disgust and attacks you...".

Similarly, you CAN lock a longsword with a dagger, at least if you have any kind of prongs on it. Being good at sundering means you find and catch the one spot along the length of the enemy's blade where it is weakest, and don't run a risk of ruining your dagger in attempting to break the longsword. Or maybe you just break the longsword's hilt when you catch his counterstroke really in close. Or something.


This seems to be a point I come up with a lot in WB's threads: if you imagine a scene based upon real world experience, or a movie you've seen, or whatever, and then apply the rules to that individual image in your head, you'll easily get a disconnect. However, if you take the rules as your baseline and imagine from there, things get much easier much of the time. Daggers CAN sunder longswords, although it ain't easy. Given that piece of axiomatic knowledge, let your imagination run wild on HOW it works.

I owe you an XP. Very good point.

 

[airwalkrr]

I, for one, have never understood why you couldn't sunder with a bludgeoning weapon. Makes no sense and I ignore that rule. I've seen enough episodes of the Deadliest Warrior to know that a bludgeoning weapon can darn well sunder another weapon or a shield.

Regarding characters accidentally sundering their own weapons out of sheer strength, I do actually have a house rule that weapons take 1 hp of damage every time they deal damage above and beyond their own hardness. It isn't a popular rule with my players so I don't use it in many of my campaigns. That alone is probably why there isn't such a rule in the game. In most of my campaigns I've replaced it with the Upkeep variant from the DMG, in which case I assume part of the upkeep cost players pay is keeping their weapons repaired. If players choose an upkeep lower than standard then there is a small chance that their equipment gives out due to wear and tear. I often enforce this as damage dealt to a weapon on attack rolls resulting in a natural 1.

But if you really want to hand-wave it and ignore the reality that weapons DO, in fact, get damaged over time by their wielders, just assume that skilled characters like the PCs are either so skillful that they know how to cut or jab without damaging their weapons or that they are spending down-time with a whet stone or what have you to work out dents and dull blades.

 

[Empirate]

Errm... you CAN sunder with a bludgeoning weapon. Just not with a piercing weapon.

Sunder

You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding...

 

[airwalkrr]

Ah, I got caught up in the conversation and didn't check my sources. My position on the matter stands that it doesn't really matter what type of damage the weapon deals. Maybe you couldn't sunder anything with an epee, rapier, or foil, but just about any weapon has some sunder potential. I think the only weapon in the PH I wouldn't allow to sunder is a whip. Anything else I could probably make a reasonable case for.

 

[Dandu]

What if it's a Flaming Frost Thundering Shocking Collision whip?