Survivor (Non-PHB) Feats: FEY TELEPORTATION WINS!

[Phazonfish]

If someone is trying to dual wield without two weapon style then the double bladed scimitar is a long long way ahead, even without the feat. If you want to make a comparison you need to assume the dual wielder has the style, which means the Valenar should also have a style. And I think it's reasonable to assume they will prefer GW style to protection...

Umm, okay? Firstly, you were the first one to bring up the comparison assuming no fighting style in your original post. Secondly, I stated the reason why I made the comparison of just the weapons + the feats in isolation, so you know I was comparing those features as opposed to hypothetical characters who chose those features and their motives; as such, I'm not sure what protection has to do with anything. (And FWIW, I would take Defense's +1 AC over either style every day of the week)

GWF and SS are very overpowered, and WotC know that now. They form the benchmark for the power of feats - if it's as powerful as those it is too powerful.

While they definitely push the limits of balance, overpowered is subjective. GWF and SS are undeniably things we have in the PHB, though, so they must be considered when making such comparisons.

 

[Harzel]

Bountiful Luck 19
Dragon Fear 19
Dragon Hide 17 - 2 = 15
Dwarven Fortitude 19
Elven Accuracy 18
Fade Away 19
Fey Teleportation 14
Flames of Phlegethos 20
Infernal Constitution 20 + 1 = 21
Orcish Fury 21
Prodigy 21
Revenant Blade 11
Second Chance 20
Squat Nimbleness 17

 

[chrisrtld]

Bountiful Luck 19
Dragon Fear 19
Dragon Hide 15
Dwarven Fortitude 19
Elven Accuracy 18
Fade Away 19
Fey Teleportation 14
Flames of Phlegethos 20
Infernal Constitution 19
Orcish Fury 21
Prodigy 21
Revenant Blade 12
Second Chance 20
Squat Nimbleness 17

 

[Gradine]

I compared them assuming no fighting style because I believe it to be a better indicator of the weapon + feat's inherent strength, but if you want to assess the value of its synergy with GW style that is also a worthwhile endeavor. Your numbers are still correct here, but if the Valenar picked up GW style I assume the Dual Wielder picked up the TWF style, so the Valenar no longer has the edge in terms of adding their ability mod on bonus damage. I wasn't impressed by the ~4 extra damage when the Valenar was the only one adding ability mod to damage, and I'm still not impressed by the 4.5 extra damage you generate on turns where you land 3 non-bonus attacks.


Personally I disagree; I think it would still fail to measure up to the standard the PHB establishes with GWM/SS builds. I've been awake for like 2 minutes though, so I've no figures to support this at this time.

Quick point of order: While either one may be slightly better under the right conditions, I think we've pretty thoroughly proven that Revenant Blade builds and Dual Wielding builds are pretty equivalent; and Dual Wielding builds, while far from the strongest under the sun, are not bad either. I hope no one thought I was legitimately disparaging the Revenant Blade, trashing on things you downvote is just part of Survivor threads.

Yeah but also Valenar Elves are pretty cool

 

[Gradine]

Bountiful Luck 19
Dragon Fear 19
Dragon Hide 15
Dwarven Fortitude 19
Elven Accuracy 16
Fade Away 19
Fey Teleportation 14
Flames of Phlegethos 20
Infernal Constitution 19
Orcish Fury 21
Prodigy 21
Revenant Blade 13
Second Chance 20
Squat Nimbleness 17

 

[CleverNickName]

Bountiful Luck 19
Dragon Fear 19
Dragon Hide 15
Dwarven Fortitude 19
Elven Accuracy 16-2=14
Fade Away 19
Fey Teleportation 14
Flames of Phlegethos 20
Infernal Constitution 19
Orcish Fury 21+1=22
Prodigy 21
Revenant Blade 13
Second Chance 20
Squat Nimbleness 17

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Maybe I'm doing it wrong or whatever, but it just looks like these feats all fall into three categories.

1. really expensive ways to undo the unique-ness of certain races and make them more like Every Other Race. "I'm a Dwarf! Except I'm the same as a half-elf pretty much."

What feats fall into this category, and how? I’m very confused by this, as by my analysis no feat comes anywhere close to even kinda fitting this description.

2. make minor changes that could probably be handled with a DM-to-Player discussion while rolling up characters. "Hey Bob, is it okay if I use a different set of spells for my Tielfing?" "Sure Ed, as long as they are the same level and same caster list." "Cool, you're the best, Bob!" "Why, because I listen to my players and I make simple, common-sense adjustments?" "Actually yes!"

Again...what? Which feats, and how?

Far as I can tell...none fit this. For instance, no feats fit the two examples given in your post.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Bountiful Luck 19
Dragon Fear 19
Dragon Hide 15
Dwarven Fortitude 19
Elven Accuracy 12
Fade Away 19
Fey Teleportation 14
Flames of Phlegethos 20
Infernal Constitution 19
Orcish Fury 22
Prodigy 21
Revenant Blade 13
Second Chance 20
Squat Nimbleness 18

 

[Phazonfish]

Maybe I'm doing it wrong or whatever, but it just looks like these feats all fall into three categories.

1. really expensive ways to undo the unique-ness of certain races and make them more like Every Other Race. "I'm a Dwarf! Except I'm the same as a half-elf pretty much."

What feats fall into this category, and how? I’m very confused by this, as by my analysis no feat comes anywhere close to even kinda fitting this description.

Are you trying to tell me that features like "Hit die healing on a Dodge action" and "Advantage on Athletics checks to escape a grapple" don't just scream "I'm a half-elf!"?

 

[Argyle King]

Honestly not sure what many of these do, so voting blind

Bountiful Luck 19
Dragon Fear 19
Dragon Hide 15
Dwarven Fortitude 19
Elven Accuracy 13
Fade Away 19
Fey Teleportation 14
Flames of Phlegethos 20
Infernal Constitution 19
Orcish Fury 20
Prodigy 21
Revenant Blade 13
Second Chance 20
Squat Nimbleness 18