D&D 5E Tasha's Mind Sliver and Shadow Sorcerer. The most efficient spellcaster?

[Sacrosanct]

Magical Items are DM Fiat and Giant Ape's rocks is also DM Fiat.
Im sure that is easier find rocks than magical weapons.
Lol.
Ok your fighter has a Net+3. Its your Magical Item.

I would assume it’s easier to find rocks in an adventure than magic weapons.

 

[Hohige]

The word "fiat" does not mean what you think it means. Magic items by level 8 are not required by the rules, but they are norm for the adventures. They are also the norm for the PC classes. Even the classes which are not spellcaster based usually obtain something in the class or subclasses or otherwise to get past resistance to non-magic attacks by mid levels.

Apes appearing with magic rocks, however, is not a norm. They simply don't come equipped with them - it's not listed. And since it's the spellcaster determining when the spell is cast, it's not even up to the DM to supply you with rocks. In no way is this a comparable concept.

And I never said or implied anything about a +2 or +3 weapon. I said it's the norm for PCs to have found something to bypass resistance to non-magic weapons by 8th level. That's it - that's my claim. It's not a weird or out there claim. Polymorphing into a Giant Ape appearing with rocks however is a weird and out there claim.

I Will ignore damage. Just +10 to hit machine that automatically restrain The target is already stronger than PC attacks.

 

[Sacrosanct]

The word "fiat" does not mean what you think it means. Magic items by level 8 are not required by the rules, but they are norm for the adventures. They are also the norm for the PC classes. Even the classes which are not spellcaster based usually obtain something in the class or subclasses or otherwise to get past resistance to non-magic attacks by mid levels.

Apes appearing with rocks, however, is not a norm - you polymorph into the creature, not their equipment. They simply don't come equipped with them - it's not listed. And since it's the spellcaster determining when the spell is cast, it's not even up to the DM to supply you with rocks. In no way is this a comparable concept.

And I never said or implied anything about a +2 or +3 weapon. I said it's the norm for PCs to have found something to bypass resistance to non-magic weapons by 8th level. That's it - that's my claim. It's not a weird or out there claim. Polymorphing into a Giant Ape appearing with rocks however is a weird and out there claim.

Are you arguing that it’s more likely to have every PC with a magic weapon than it is to find a rock laying around?

Ok, this is too much lol. I’m out.

 

[Mistwell]

Are you arguing that it’s more likely to have every PC with a magic weapon than it is to find a rock laying around?

Ok, this is too much lol. I’m out.

I am arguing that over the course of eight levels it is more likely for a weapons-based PC to have found a means of bypassing resistance to non-magic attacks than it is for your two polymorph spells in one shot to happen where two Giant Apes can acquire and carry around with them for 600 rounds rocks to throw in a typical adventure location, yeah.

And I am arguing you're in a mood today. For which I am sorry. I hope your week gets better man. Here's to better times.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I am arguing that over the course of eight levels it is more likely for a weapons-based PC to have found a means of bypassing resistance to non-magic attacks than it is for your two polymorph spells in one shot to happen where two Giant Apes can acquire and carry around with them for 600 rounds rocks to throw in a typical adventure location, yeah.

If you look at the actual adventures published, your first is clearly an assumption that isn’t as frequent as you think. Certainly less frequent then finding a rock (or similar object) for the duration of a typical encounter.

You’re right, they aren’t comparable. Just the opposite of what you are assuming, is all.

And stop with the ad hominem attacks just because you can’t back up your arguments or claims. I’m not “in a mood”

 

[Hohige]

I am arguing that over the course of eight levels it is more likely for a weapons-based PC to have found a means of bypassing resistance to non-magic attacks than it is for your two polymorph spells in one shot to happen where two Giant Apes can acquire and carry around with them for 600 rounds rocks to throw in a typical adventure location, yeah.

And I am arguing you're in a mood today. For which I am sorry. I hope your week gets better man. Here's to better times.

Ok, you got a legendary Net+3 with your fighter, not a Flame Glaive.
Why? Because you can't choose your magical Items. Your DM chooses.

 

[NotAYakk]

You only burn a superiority dice on a miss. You miss by 3 or less 15% of attacks, so you burn 0.45 dice/turn at 3 attacks. You actually can get a 4th reaction attack most turns with PAM and BM; free if they approach, or reaction sup die if they attack you.

And yes, you are free to ignore the fact that polymorphed creatures cannot use magic items. It does make polymorphed creatures look better than they are in actual play.

I have had polymorph. It is a horizontal change in effectiveness usually, and an amazing "heal" on a focused PC.

That is actual in play experience.

Usually I have better things to spend my action or concentration on. If it is a trivial fight, a 4th level slot is overkill at level 8. If it is a hard fight, allies will be burning resources and polymorph blocks that.

When a PC is beat down by a tough foe, ape or trex buys a few rounds of soak. And if they burnt through resources, the damage output is competitive.

Does trex restrain? Often not; only works on humanoid sized foes if I remember right.

 

[jgsugden]

Well, as I mentioned, I’ve seen it in actual play. Often. So it’s not white room for me. It’s actual play experience.

And what I’ve seen is “heck ya turn me into a T. rex, I’ll wreck havoc, and when it drops, I’ll still have all of my class resources left to do even more or to have those available for the next encounter.”

Any players in that game on these boards? People that would rather play your T-rex lacky than their PC?

 

[Sacrosanct]

Any players in that game on these boards? People that would rather play your T-rex lacky than their PC?

Not that I’m aware, but what does board membership have to do with anything? Are you arguing that unless someone is a member here, it doesn’t happen in play?

and why do you assume they are a lackey? They don’t do what I tell them. They are willing, and control their own PCs even when polymorphed. But yes, some of them very much like to be polymorphed for a number of reasons (not just a T. rex)

Your condescending hyperbole makes me think you are letting yourself be blinded by your own biases. It certainly doesn’t make for a compelling argument.

 

[Hohige]

Any players in that game on these boards? People that would rather play your T-rex lacky than their PC?

WTF. Who doesnt love play f... T- Rex. Its epic