D&D 5E Tasha's Mind Sliver and Shadow Sorcerer. The most efficient spellcaster?

[Sacrosanct]

On a related note, here was the post with screenshot of twinned t rex’s in action. It was a game changer for this encounter for sure. (Also of note, you can twin polymorph, and can’t twin fireball, if we’re gonna be factoring in all things)

Post in thread 'Class choices that didn't sync well with the campaign.'
D&D 5E - Class choices that didn't sync well with the campaign.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

WTF. Who doesnt love play f... T- Rex. Its epic

It is. Once or twice. But once the novelty wears off it is a pretty limited character to play.

 

[jgsugden]

WTF. Who doesnt love play f... T- Rex. Its epic

So your next PC is going to be a dinosaur?

Not that I’m aware, but what does board membership have to do with anything? Are you arguing that unless someone is a member here, it doesn’t happen in play?

It would help to hear from them why they like having you polymorph them every combat.

and why do you assume they are a lackey? They don’t do what I tell them. They are willing, and control their own PCs even when polymorphed. But yes, some of them very much like to be polymorphed for a number of reasons (not just a T. rex)

Why assume they're a lackey? They play what you tell them to play and they're being directed what to attack in the example.

Your condescending hyperbole makes me think you are letting yourself be blinded by your own biases. It certainly doesn’t make for a compelling argument.

My condescending hyperbole is saying that most people do not like to be told, "Hey, forget the PC you've been playing for 6 levels. Go be my dinosaur minion!"

Strategic use of polymorph is fun. Telling your party members, "You should let me polymorph you because my PC is awesome and all powerful and it'll make your useless PC that can't even deal as much damage useful for once" ... well, you mentioned condescending?

 

[Sacrosanct]

So your next PC is going to be a dinosaur?
It would help to hear from them why they like having you polymorph them every combat.
Why assume they're a lackey? They play what you tell them to play and they're being directed what to attack in the example.My condescending hyperbole is saying that most people do not like to be told, "Hey, forget the PC you've been playing for 6 levels. Go be my dinosaur minion!"

Strategic use of polymorph is fun. Telling your party members, "You should let me polymorph you because my PC is awesome and all powerful and it'll make your useless PC that can't even deal as much damage useful for once" ... well, you mentioned condescending?

Well, it’s a good thing that’s never happened then, isn’t it? What you’re assuming is happening isn’t. Maybe if you stopped assuming that players are forced to being polymorphed into what I want, when I want, and to attack who I want, you wouldn’t have these preconceived notions about it being a bad thing. It might also help if you realize that D&D isn’t just a combat encounter, so the vast majority of time they aren’t even polymorphed, and thus are hardly a minion; they are still their normal PC playing however they want. You also keep ignoring the part about them being willing and want to do this, for reasons I already gave. If you have to resort to strawmen arguments (as I’ve never remotely told them anything close to what you’re saying), then you may need to reevaluate your argument at its core.

 

[Mistwell]

To show how the T-Rex isn't all that...I will take the commonly maligned "weakest" melee class.

Ranger (Beastmaster) 8
Pet: Poisonous Snake
Race: Variant Human 16 Strength, Feat Magic Initiate (find familiar for advantage once/round, and booming blade cantrip)
Level 4: GWM feat
Level 8:+2 str
Weapon: Maul
Spell: Hunter's Mark pre-cast and moved for first round of combat to target
Spell: Booming Blade, after first round of combat, where applicable
Poisonous Snake: attack, plus proficiency bonus plus poison

Pretty sure that build does around as much damage per round as the T-Rex, with a LOT more flexibility. Treatmonk does the math here, but he does it right with adding in attack odds, crit odds, save odds, etc.. My back-of-the-envelope super quick calculation put it at above 50 damage a round with your type of calculation. But, you know, with a decent armor class. And equipment. And fully functional arms. And full player agency. And being able to think and not simply hulk-smash, no ranged attack, with a 2 intelligence which is probably so low you cannot even tell friend from foe sometimes.

And that's the weakest melee class. The new Ranger subclasses do better. Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins all do better. The spellcasting classes all do better too.

Polymorph is a great spell, just not the way you two are arguing it should be used.

 

[Hohige]

To show how the T-Rex isn't all that...I will take the commonly maligned "weakest" melee class.

Ranger (Beastmaster) 8
Pet: Poisonous Snake
Race: Variant Human 16 Strength, Feat Magic Initiate (find familiar for advantage once/round, and booming blade cantrip)
Level 4: GWM feat
Level 8:+2 str
Weapon: Maul
Spell: Hunter's Mark pre-cast and moved for first round of combat to target
Spell: Booming Blade, after first round of combat, where applicable
Poisonous Snake: attack, plus proficiency bonus plus poison

Pretty sure that build does around as much damage per round as the T-Rex, with a LOT more flexibility. Treatmonk does the math here, but he does it right with adding in attack odds, crit odds, save odds, etc.. My back-of-the-envelope super quick calculation put it at above 50 damage a round with your type of calculation. But, you know, with a decent armor class. And equipment. And fully functional arms. And full player agency. And being able to think and not simply hulk-smash, no ranged attack, with a 2 intelligence which is probably so low you cannot even tell friend from foe sometimes.

And that's the weakest melee class. The new Ranger subclasses do better. Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins all do better. The spellcasting classes all do better too.

Polymorph is a great spell, just not the way you two are arguing it should be used.

+4 to hit and using Poison(DM Fiat and resources)?
Against +10 automatic restrained condition.
It inst enough.

 

[Sacrosanct]

+4 to hit and using Poison(DM Fiat and resources)?
Against +10 automatic restrained condition.
It inst enough.

There are also several errors in that scenario. First, assuming PHB beastmaster and not tashas because of poisonous snake. That means if you use booming blade, the snake can’t attack. BB is a spell that allows a weapon attack, it’s not an attack action that you split via the BM feature.
Secondly, HM as a bonus precondition? Hardly an even field
Thirdly, BB assume the target has to move. It doesn’t always

 

[Mistwell]

+4 to hit and using Poison(DM Fiat and resources)?
Against +10 automatic restrained condition.
It inst enough.

LOL are you arguing a poisonous snake doesn't do poison?

 

[Mistwell]

There are also several errors in that scenario. First, assuming PHB beastmaster and not tashas because of poisonous snake. That means if you use booming blade, the snake can’t attack. BB is a spell that allows a weapon attack, it’s not an attack action that you split via the BM feature.
Secondly, HM as a bonus precondition? Hardly an even field
Thirdly, BB assume the target has to move. It doesn’t always

SO you didn't watch the video it looks like. OK, you keep arguing in bad faith.

 

[Hohige]

LOL are you arguing a poisonous snake doesn't do poison?

Its pretty weak and The ranger has only +4 to hit.
As mencioned, you can't cast booming Blade and command the snake.

You also mentioned a lot of classes, but dont show How compete against Giant Ape and T rex offensive Power.