D&D 5E The Art of the Secret Door

[Psikerlord#]

I have to say I've played with teh roll a search check, yep you find a secret door, it creaks open and.... and it is kinda boring.

I like the idea of the successful perception/search check giving clues, then letting the players figure out how to open it (or make an int check, if they dont want to bother RPing it out). So for secret doors it would tend to reveal drafts, barely perceivable doorshaped lines, prints leading nowhere, etc. Then the players can poke around for a bit to discover how it opens, concealed button, book on shelf, depressing a section, concealed compartment with rope, etc.

This is one area I think premade adventures should take the trouble to describe - to save the DM time/trouble etc - because I find secret doors one of the more difficult things to narrate off the cuff.

 

[Henrix]

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on how to balance that. Perhaps if the description is good enough, they can make the check with advantage? But that could mean an average intelligence Cleric (who's Player is a sharp gamer) would be constantly out smarting the genius wizard played by the salt of the earth player.

Didn't Mearls (or somebody) suggest something like that early in the playtest phase?

Just saying that they search the whole room could lead to a check, perhaps even with disadvantage if it were non-specific or hurried, a normal check with some immersion, and advantage if real thought was involved?
And automatic if done more or less as in the 1e description.

(I had almost forgotten about that.)

Sounds perfectly fine to me.

As for the highly intelligent not succeeding - I'd chalk that up to roleplaying. You can have a high charisma warlock too weird to manage many social situations, why not a distraught wizard?


I can see two rather distinct sorts of secret doors. (Wasn't there a distinction between secret and hidden doors?)
One is the tricky, secret, ones that require thought and clues, important for the scenario.
Others that are really much simpler - say a hidden panel where some more treasure is hidden.

As for weird opening mechanisms; I like them either fairly simple and easy to grasp, or magical tricks.
Complex mechanisms, in particular if far removed from the door, break my immersion. Turning a torch holder at the end of the room is a bad mechanism. How would you even make such a thing today (without using electricity)?

A really interesting idea I intend to use is from a thread over on RPG.net is this:

[sblock=DM's onlyA mirror showing the room. Almost. Some items shown are not in the room, or placed differently. You have to match the mirror to open the door.
It could easily be a quest to get the right items.[/sblock]

 

[dd.stevenson]

I posted this a long time ago elsewhere, but I felt like it was worth discussing again with the 5e release.

[1] Do you design secret doors with mechanisms which require specific verbal instructions from your players to discover and unlock? If so let us hear the details of any you devised that you were pleased with.

[2] How important is it to you to leave clues for your players, to let them know in advance of the possibility of a secret door?

[3] Do you often hide both the door, ans the means of opening the door?

[4] What is you favorite example of a secret door?

I don't usually do any kind of skill checks to find doors. It's all up to the player description of character actions. That said, I'm pretty liberal about giving hot/cold info if the players are pushing the bookcase when they should be pulling (for example). The goal is to have fun interacting with the game world, not to frustrate people.

Telegraphing, and upping the number of components required to operate the door, are my two big ways of controlling difficulty. For example, if there's no wear marks on the statue's face, then they're that much less likely to reach into the mouth and pull the tongue. And if they must push the bookcase as well as pull the tongue to get the secret door open, then it's that much harder again.

My favorite examples of secret doors (by which I mean the most rewarding to DM, and for which I've gotten the most positive feedback) are those secret doors that the players don't discover on the first pass. Sometimes I don't even intend these things to be secret doors at all. For example, once when they were exploring the lair of some evil frog men they came to a place where the running water quickly deepened into a pool that ended in a mud wall. Obviously anyone who's played an adventure game knows that they needed to dive under the water to find the not-really secret tunnel. But they didn't look--at first I thought they just weren't keen on risking their lives in the muddy water, but afterword it became clear that they just hadn't thought of it. It wasn't until a group of frog men materialized from seemingly out of the water that it dawned on them that they needed to take a swim. Realizing that something they've already passed over needs a second look adds an element of depth to the experience, and if it's evident that this wasn't an invisible wall type of shenanigan then so much the better.

 

[Nebulous]

The original example, while it IS VERY COOL in some ways, as it oozes roleplaying and idea-prompting, it is somewhat too tedious. Especially in an area where multiple secret doors are present. The adventure could turn into four hours of tapping floors and walls. On the other hand, Taking 20 to find secret doors is even worse in my opinion, so I would try to combine the two somehow.

I just realized that this would be a really interesting section in the DMG. Multiple ways to approach and handle the same situation.

 

[Nebulous]

Also, to me, TWO things are very important:

1) if the secret door is important, it needs to be found no matter what. The players should not know this however. In which the DM needs to secretly place more emphasis on its presence/function.

2) if it is not important, such as, they might find 50gp and a +1 dagger, screw it. If they're clever they'll find it, if not they don't, no big deal. This approach also allows for ad hoc secret door design that the DM makes up on the fly.

 

[Rhenny]

Also, to me, TWO things are very important:

1) if the secret door is important, it needs to be found no matter what. The players should not know this however. In which the DM needs to secretly place more emphasis on its presence/function.

2) if it is not important, such as, they might find 50gp and a +1 dagger, screw it. If they're clever they'll find it, if not they don't, no big deal. This approach also allows for ad hoc secret door design that the DM makes up on the fly.

I agree with you here. I use the same distinctions for many other things that happen in a game session. If it has to happen, I make it happen (i.e., interrupting a rest when the party tries to rest in a populated area or if the enemy knows they are there, opening doors or moving things that require strength checks, speaking with NPCs to gain information, etc.)

 

[drjones]

My players had a character that could fly and teleport all the time in our 4E Dark Sun game so a lot of my encounter/dungeon design was about working around that while still giving him chances to use his powers. They were invading the tower of Kalak so I set it up that his inner sanctum was only reachable by golem servitors and Kalak himself. A tower of many levels that only connected the levels being a hole in the floor some of which striped magical effects when someone passed through.

A secondary shell around the tower allowed the servitors to carry food and such up and down the tower and access secret doors on each level. The doors required the rune that marked the forehead of each servitor touch a different rune on the hidden doors. I was going to make it work with a decapitated golem head but they never made the connection and instead struggled up the central shaft, including some mid-fight shoves that dropped people several floors.

My main goal with a secret door or treasure or whatever is that if it leads to a bonus (extra loot, better odds in a fight) it can be as complicated or unintuitive as I like including doors that only open if certain actions are taken outside die rolls. But if it gates some plot point then the secret has to be achievable by a roll and be relatively obvious.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

I generally design some sort of mechanism. I'm a bit particular about that, a lot of times there are these complicated traps or secret doors where it just doesn't make sense how they would ever operate in reality.

But I'm also very particular about my placement of traps and secret doors. Concealed doors (behind a curtain, for example) is one thing. But to design an actual secret door, there needs to be a reason why it exists. It's often an escape route, and if that's the case there's always an alternative if the PCs can't find it. Sometimes it's a secret room, and either they find it or not.

Traps need some reasonable method to reset, or an automatic reset, unless they are one time use things. In that case, if the location has been explored before, they may already be set off (which I've done many times as well). They also need a method to disable them so they don't trigger against the normal inhabitants.

As for the process to find them, it's usually a mix. If they can figure it out on their own, then no check is needed. The more descriptive they are, the better. I'll give advantage, a bonus, or maybe a clue with another check. I don't really worry about them describing the exact process, if they are manipulating the correct object, then I'll just continue the description with them figuring it out. If they're very close, but haven't figured it out, then I'll have them roll a check.

But sometimes they just aren't getting it (as players) and that's what I consider the purpose of the checks. A passive check is sort of pointless. If that's high enough, then they just discover it. But discovering the secret door doesn't mean that they've discovered a method to open it. I find that a good approach to get them looking, and it's particularly exciting if there is an element of time involved (they see the secret door close just as their opponent escaped through it, how do they open it to keep chasing them?). Of course, sometimes it's a ruse (they take their time to find it, eventually do, and chase the nonexistent opponent down the secret passage, while the now-hidden enemy escapes back down the main hall...

Ilbranteloth

 

[machineelf]

I use an approach that gives four levels of observation of a room (and three levels of searching the room beyond casual observation).

Level 1: This is when the characters first enter a room/area. There is no need to roll and no need to do anything but casually observe. This is where the description of the obvious features of the room come in. Example: "The room is this big. There is a bed in the room, and a big rug in the center of the room. There is another door to the north. There is an ogre holding a pie in his hand."

Level 2 (Or, level 1 of active searching): The player says generically "I want to search the room." I allow this to mean they look a bit more carefully at the obvious things. They look at the walls, the floor, the ceiling, and all the items of furniture in a general way. They roll for this. If there is something hidden within or under an object, like under the rug or hidden in the pillow on the bed, they have no chance to find it even with a successful roll. But they do find clues that may lead them to hidden doors, and find other details (like scratches on the side of the bed) If they meet the DC.

Level 3 (or level 2 of active searching): They say they want to search a particular item or particular area. They roll for this. If they say they want to search the bed more closely, or the rug more closely and they succeed on the roll, I'll let them find the item hidden under the rug or in the pillowcase, or at least give them some kind of description that will lead them to it, to enhance the storytelling. Example: "You notice something lumpy in the pillow."

Level 4 (or level 3 of active searching): They specifically say exactly where they want to search, which would lead them right to a hidden item. No need to roll for this. If they say they want to pick the rug up and look under it, they'll find whatever is there with no roll. Or if they say they want to take the pillow and cut it open or squeeze it to feel all around it. They'll find whatever is there. If there is a secret door that swings freely on a pivot, and they say they want to push on the wall exactly where the door is, then they find the door. No roll required.

This allows players to both have a sense that they can get a little more involved in the searching and the storytelling, and encourages them to be as specific as possible in their searches. And it also rewards the characters with higher intelligence investigation skill.

 

[dwayne]

I always provide multiple was to over come an obstacle if it is a non important part, or only one way if it is and has to be very difficult. I go with dc 15 if they are looking around the room and searching I lower finding it if they tell me were like what wall by about 5 or so never below 10. As for finding how to open I go with the DC's in the book and leave it to the players to decide if they want to roll or role play it out. by trying different things or solving a puzzle or what have you by rolling a skill check or ability check what ever fits the need at the time. I give bonus for role play from 1 to 5 to a role on how creative and how close they get, and automatic if they figure it out with out rolling.