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5E The case for (and against) a new Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book

Parmandur

Legend
Settings are a tool for GMs, not players.

Part of WotC discovery in building 5E, IIRC, is that DMs are overwhelmingly the ones who buy all the books, even the PHB. 5E books are designed for DMs.

How about we look at the discussion from a different perspective....

Which of the following books would, by itself, allow a GM to run a Chult based adventure not featuring the Death Curse with the least amount of effort?

1. The 3e FRCS
2. The 5e SCAG
3. Tomb of Annihilation

Bingo bongo, number 3 by a country mile...
 

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Ok, but then they go check the 5e source on Chult, ToA, and they realize that Ubtao isn’t suitable and instead they mention one of the other deities?
If they have some knowledge of Ubtao they will try to look for more. Guess where they cannot find much of that information. ToA.
Why would they realize Ubtao is not suitable. ToA is inconclusive if he is continued worshipped. Set it in another time period and Ubtao will be around. I thought ToA was a campaign resource. And meant to be taken for inspiration. Not as something restrictive and prescriptive. Which you are advocating.
 

How about we look at the discussion from a different perspective....

Which of the following books would, by itself, allow a GM to run a Chult based adventure not featuring the Death Curse with the least amount of effort?

1. The 3e FRCS
2. The 5e SCAG
3. Tomb of Annihilation
Shown to be inaccurate. This claim will also not be true for many groups. The majority even. I will bet.
I do like the pivot away from the claim of ToA "has everything you need to run adventures in x". A hyperbolic claim can be made in an echo chamber.

The 3e FRCS claimed it had "all the details you need to play in FR". And we all know that is bullshite.
 
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How about we look at the discussion from a different perspective....

Which of the following books would, by itself, allow a GM to run a Chult based adventure not featuring the Death Curse with the least amount of effort?

1. The 3e FRCS
2. The 5e SCAG
3. Tomb of Annihilation
The answer is 4. The 2e Chult book.
 

Teemu

Adventurer
If they have some knowledge of Ubtao they will try to look for more. Guess where they cannot find much of that information. ToA.
Why would they realize Ubtao is not suitable. ToA is inconclusive if he is continued worshipped. Set it in another time period and Ubtao will be around. I thought ToA was a campaign resource. And meant to be taken for inspiration. Not as something restrictive and prescriptive. Which you are advocating.
Ok, so they look for more information, and they look through SCAG, finding no mention of Ubtao. Then they read ToA, and learn that Ubtao left his people because he "grew angry over his worshipers' endless warring" and their "reliance on him to solve all their problems". Ubtao is not worshiped in Chult. Waukeen, Gond, Savras, Sune, and Tymora are. The 3e FRCS has no stats of domains for Amaunator, but if I want to run a game using FRCS and feature Amaunator, is the book an incomplete source since it lacks the info I need?
 

No, I’m not. People are out of work in record numbers. I’m stating a fact that many may not like but it is a fact. It is financially irresponsible to pay 50 bucks for 32-50 pages of material.

Or, it is a way for those of us whose budgets have NOT been hurt to keep companies that we believe in afloat. Don't push your financial hurts on everybody else.

Note that I am not advocating that anybody who IS in a dire financial situation spend money unwisely. However, everybody needs a little bit of "fun" expenditures here and there and it is up to them to decide what is worth it and what is not.
 

To quote that number for that timeframe and claim "they are putting out FR mini settings constantly" is a stretch. It is also rather disingenuous. Especially since you well know the common complaints of a lack of quantity of books.
The adventure books are great. However they only include information that has a bearing on the adventure itself. Anything outside the boundaries of the adventure and you simply will not have enough information.
Also, quite frankly, they don't have ENOUGH information. I run my games purely from published settings. However, I want to know more about the towns we pass through. I want more maps. I want more possible adventure hooks in case my players go off the intended path.
 

For sure. I actually find it way easier to imagine FR content coming out in a series of Gazetteers than in a huge generic setting book. Especially if each one had a targeted and specific flavor. A subclass or two, a background or two, some magic and some monsters, plus the setting bits and adventure hooks, all sharing a theme. WotC doesn't seem to do smaller books though, so IDK. Not every part of the Realms has that strong a theme, but if you broaden the scope to include, say, faction books, you can get a lot of coverage. I might use faction books to cover less thematically strong parts of the Realms.
I would LOVE a book just on various factions.
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
I would LOVE a book just on various factions.
You betcha. We should have a club. I find factions way more useful than the standard political/geographical info. I mean you still need maps and you still need to know who's in charge, and maybe a soupcon of history, but it's really who wants what at what cost, and who wants something different, and why that makes them enemies that really bring a setting to life. In the case of the Realms, its some of the factions that are the truly international entities, so making use of that would be sensible, IMO anyway.
 

Ash Mantle

Adventurer
I would LOVE a book just on various factions.
You betcha. We should have a club. I find factions way more useful than the standard political/geographical info. I mean you still need maps and you still need to know who's in charge, and maybe a soupcon of history, but it's really who wants what at what cost, and who wants something different, and why that makes them enemies that really bring a setting to life. In the case of the Realms, its some of the factions that are the truly international entities, so making use of that would be sensible, IMO anyway.
Oh, to go back to the heady days of Cloak and Dagger :D Imagine an update of that superlative supplement, and include faction mechanics like they have in Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica and Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, include faction interactions, include NPC statbooks, and then include all Forgotten Realms factions! That'll truly bring the setting to life, and make it seem like a living, breathing world.
 


Aldarc

Legend
I mentioned, earlier, my extreme disdain for the Realms. A very small amount of that is actually not caring for some parts of what was in the 1E gray box. But, I played, quite happily, in a Realms game with that structure. Really, what fries me about the Realms is that there is so much freaking information that I genuinely don't see how anyone can actually work with the thing and have a life. It seems that you could put together a four year undergraduate program on the Realms and still leave room for a masters. That's great, if your actual hobby is studying the setting (like, say, some do with Tolkien). My hobby is playing the game. In that regard, Forgotten Realms fails to give me what I need to play -- flexibility and manageability.
This is one reason why I became enamored with the Nentir Vale. It mostly works as a fill-in-the-blank GM toolkit with a vague sense of history and lore. I have used it several times as the backdrop for 5e adventures.
 


Ok, so they look for more information, and they look through SCAG, finding no mention of Ubtao. Then they read ToA, and learn that Ubtao left his people because he "grew angry over his worshipers' endless warring" and their "reliance on him to solve all their problems". Ubtao is not worshiped in Chult. Waukeen, Gond, Savras, Sune, and Tymora are.
Keep reading. "To this day the dinosaurs of Chult are still revered as Ubtao's children. Ubtao is no longer popular."
Not he is not worshipped. Saying he is not worshipped in your home game is fine. Saying he is not worshipped in other games is irrelevant.

The 3e FRCS has no stats of domains for Amaunator, but if I want to run a game using FRCS and feature Amaunator, is the book an incomplete source since it lacks the info I need?
Yes. Because the claim by the 3e FRCS is bullshite. It does not "contain all the details you need to play in FR". Even the responses in this thread think that claim is bullshite.
 
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Also, quite frankly, they don't have ENOUGH information. I run my games purely from published settings. However, I want to know more about the towns we pass through. I want more maps. I want more possible adventure hooks in case my players go off the intended path.
Definitely agree.


Trying to claim ToA "has everything you need to run adventures in Chult" for all of us is nonsense.
 



Mercule

Adventurer
This is one reason why I became enamored with the Nentir Vale. It mostly works as a fill-in-the-blank GM toolkit with a vague sense of history and lore. I have used it several times as the backdrop for 5e adventures.
I really wish I'd liked 4E rules more. The Nentir Vale seemed pretty cool. It would have been good timing, too, as I killed off my 25 year home brew during 3e.

Interesting enough, for this conversation, I found that even the material I'd created from whole cloth had become too limiting and it was time to start fresh.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I really wish I'd liked 4E rules more. The Nentir Vale seemed pretty cool. It would have been good timing, too, as I killed off my 25 year home brew during 3e.

Did you kill it off in game, or just stop playing it. If you killed it off in game, I'm curious as to what kind of storyline did it?
 

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