D&D 5E The case for (and against) a new Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book

[amethal]

What about all the undead infesting Chult.

There have been undead infesting Chult since 2nd edition. (In another post you mentioned the 2nd edition book on Chult, so possibly you already know this.) It is also mentioned on the Ras Nisi description on page 229 of Tome of Annihilation.

There is of course also the undead created by the lich. It seems unlikely to me that Ras Nisi would create undead dinosaurs (since that would be an affront to Ubtao) so the existence of undead dinosaurs is a plot hook which the PCs can look into. When they do, they find that the source is ... a lich based in you-know-where (since it's potentially a spoiler).

In another post you mention Ubtao. It says on page 14 and again on page 92 that Ubtao turned his back on Chult a long time ago, so I think it is perfectly reasonable that ToA is very scant on the details of worshipping Ubtao. Since hardly anyone does, these days. (Greater God, once protector of Chult and Chultans but isn't any more, dinosaurs are sacred - I think that is sufficient, although if it was me I'd have listed his domains as well.)

 

[Mercule]

Your claim that ToA has everything you need to run any adventure in Chult is demonstrably false.
One of my players wants to play a native Chultan who worships Ubtao. They are deadset on worshipping Ubtao. Where is the information on Ubtao?

I want to run adventures set in the Valley of Dread. Or in the Sky Lizard Mountains. Or in the Sanrach Mountains. Or in Samarach. Because these look cool. Where is this information?
I have a memory of the Rundeen in Chult. Where is that information?

Not knowing anything about the Realms, I have to ask whether some of that is introduced in ToA or not. If it is, and there are no details, then that's not great. If you're invoking minutiae that was a footnote in some 2E or 3E secondary source book, then I think that's a bit of an unfair ask. You have enough to play Chult. You just don't have an exhaustive source on it.

My preference is actually that sourcebooks provide enough to play and leave the details to me. I actually don't mind the SCAG and have commented to my group that I'd probably be willing to run a Realms game using it. I'm just not going to go reference any other material and only the SCAG is canon, at my table, so if I want to add an empire of blue gnomes to the immediate west of the map included in the book, that's totally in bounds. Most of the table was fine with that idea. The one person who really wanted the Realms blanched a bit.

 

[Mercule]

If it lists things that then require homebrew that is demonstrably not having everything you need.

Feature, not bug.

 

[Mercule]

Those resources are, indeed, what WotC has to compete with when putting out a new Setting book. As you pointed out, why should we demand that people pay $50 for what they can get for free...?

The 5E Setting books so far have done an excellent job rising to that challenge.

Agreed. Despite my initial resistance, I'm very happy with the idea of "let's get just enough shelf space to introduce this setting". I'm still not thrilled that the Realms are what are used for all the adventures and think it'd be better if they spread out the love a bit. But... It's better than nothing and the simplified setting books don't suck.
Edit: spelling

 

[Xenonnonex]

Exactly!

Why would anyone want to pay for something that is easily available for free!?

Does not make sense.

Consider that I am a new DM. I have heard from a more experienced DM that ToA "has everything someone needs to run adventures in Chult". I have heard this from multiple experienced DMs. I discover this simply is not true. I find ToA is lacking information. I am forced to Google because of this falsehood.

Ubtao is mentioned in the text where who the locals worship is relevant. The book is lacking in the index department though.

More relevantly no portfolio is mentioned. His domains are not mentioned. A mention is not the same as having relevant information that can be used. We can infer Chult is connected. But in what way. As protector only? As creator? We can infer that dinosaurs are connected. We can infer later in the book that mazes are somehow relevant. Crucially there is no central relevant point in the book that offers this information.

None of this information is in the much vaunted 2nd or 3rd edition FR sourcebooks either.

Page 23 of FRM1 Jungles of Chult
"Ubtao-Worship
Many Tabaxi venerate Ubtao. These people believe that Ubtao created the jungle and all the humans and animals that populate this hot, green world. Ubtao also raised the holy city of Mezro from the jungle with his own hands and resided there for a time-until the people drove him into the heavens with their nagging demands.
"The Maze of Life
It is believed among these Tabaxi that Ubtao created the jungle as a sort of test for his people, a maze for them to pass through on their way to a heavenly afterlife. They also believe that each life can be represented as a maze.
"The Children of Ubtao
In Chult, dinosaurs are often referred to as the Children of Ubtao. The monstrous lizards, unlike humans, demanded nothing of the creator god once they were placed in the jungle, so some of the faithful consider them the favored creation of Ubtao."
This information is telling us Ubtao is god of Chult. He is god of Mezro. He is god of the maze of life. He is god of dinosaurs.
The text goes further in offering mechanics to play a priest of Ubtao.
The 3e FRCS has similar information to the portfolio of Ubtao in less words. His connection to Chult is even more concrete. This is on page 103 and page 104 of the Chult section. Page 234 gives you the alignment of Ubtao. It gives you his domains. It gives you his favored weapon.
But I guess none of this information is in both the 2nd or 3rd edition FR sourcebooks.

Do you expect an FR sourcebook to tell you the name of the chieftain's second wife for the unnamed village 16 miles south east of Port Nyanzaru?

I do expect that ToA gives at least brief descriptions of the locations it gives on the map. It is an adventure. Yes?

The 3rd edition book has one page on Chult, and one short paragraph on Port Nyanzaru. ToA has a whole chapter on Port Nyanzaru alone.

FRM1 Jungles of Chult is an entire mini-setting devoted to Chult. ToA offers less than this.

And if they don't know that a place not on the map is part of another country their head will explode?

No. They will be scratching their heads why they cannot use this.

I say again, what you are after is fictional-history-porn, not something that is actually useful for playing D&D.

I am asking about things that are actually useful for running adventures in Chult. Explicitly for running adventures in Chult. None of what I am asking for is fictional-history porn. But then again you did say none of the information on Ubtao is in the much vaunted 2nd or 3rd edition FR sourcebooks. So.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Do you expect an FR sourcebook to tell you the name of the chieftain's second wife for the unnamed village 16 miles south east of Port Nyanzaru?

...

I say again, what you are after is fictional-history-porn, not something that is actually useful for playing D&D.

I do think, though, that ToA could have....or, better yet, a Chult setting book still could...provide more information without getting into unnecessary detail. As I said earlier, the trick is to avoid trying to write original flowery prose for every location, and just give enough details for a DM to work with.

So for that unnamed village 16 miles se of Port Nyanzaru, just a few sentence fragments to get the DM's creative juices flowing would be a big help.

 

[Xenonnonex]

To play Devil's Advocate for a moment...

1. I'm really sick of adventure paths that are predicated on needing to save the world.
2. ESPECIALLY when it's for 1st level adventurers.
3. Killing things and taking their stuff is a sufficiently motivating factor for me.

Really, I don't think it's very hard to remove Death Curse. "Hey, brand new adventurers, I need a McGuffin for my collection/research/phylactery. I'll pay you 1,000 gold to retrieve it from Chult."

Yes. You personally may be. However other groups may not be. Other groups may still want to run with a world ending plot. And so need a plot device similarly as calamitous.

 

[Xenonnonex]

I do think, though, that ToA could have....or, better yet, a Chult setting book still could...provide more information without getting into unnecessary detail. As I said earlier, the trick is to avoid trying to write original flowery prose for every location, and just give enough details for a DM to work with.

So for that unnamed village 16 miles se of Port Nyanzaru, just a few sentence fragments to get the DM's creative juices flowing would be a big help.

Exactly. We would like for it to offer a little more. We have not been asking for flowery prose. Others have said it offers a lot more.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Yes. You personally may be. However other groups may not be. Other groups may still want to run with a world ending plot. And so need a plot device similarly as calamitous.

You could tell @Flamestrike that there are Boots of Flying in Chult.

 

[Xenonnonex]

Not knowing anything about the Realms, I have to ask whether some of that is introduced in ToA or not. If it is, and there are no details, then that's not great. If you're invoking minutiae that was a footnote in some 2E or 3E secondary source book, then I think that's a bit of an unfair ask. You have enough to play Chult. You just don't have an exhaustive source on it.

Ubtao is mentioned as a greater god. Then there are only inferences to what he is greater god over. Good to extrapolate from. But if someone wants something more concrete it is not there.
The sites as mentioned are mentioned on the map. Their names sound cool. There is really no detail for quite a few of those sites later in the book.

My preference is actually that sourcebooks provide enough to play and leave the details to me. I actually don't mind the SCAG and have commented to my group that I'd probably be willing to run a Realms game using it. I'm just not going to go reference any other material and only the SCAG is canon, at my table, so if I want to add an empire of blue gnomes to the immediate west of the map included in the book, that's totally in bounds. Most of the table was fine with that idea. The one person who really wanted the Realms blanched a bit.

I urge people to make their own Realms games to be whatever they want to be.