D&D General The Case For High INT Fighters in Dungeons and Dragons

[mellored]

Let me put it this way: Would you accept the Fighter being classified as inherently just a little bit magical? Just a smidgeon--that no matter what the Fighter is, it is necessarily magical in nature, what with having superhuman endurance and speed and etc., etc.?

Yes.

Mostly because if you add the word "magic" then everyone will stop complaining about verisimilitude and let them do cool stuff.

No complaining about how healing herbs would take days for a wound to heal while the Cleric waves his hand and beings someone back from the dead.

Not my preference, but if you can't beat them, join them.

 

[Minigiant]

I still thinking INT (and WIS) warriors should handled as Fighting styles.

Remember those crazy feats and tactical feats from Complete Warrior?

Canny Fighter: You can use your Inteligence modifier instead of your Dexterity modifier when determining AC and Initiative.
Monkey Grip: You can use melee weapons one size category larger than you are with a –2 penalty on the attack roll,
Zen Archery Intuitive Shooter: You can use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Dexterity modifier when making a ranged attack roll.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Yes.

Mostly because if you add the word "magic" then everyone will stop complaining about verisimilitude and let them do cool stuff.

No complaining about how healing herbs would take days for a wound to heal while the Cleric waves his hand and beings someone back from the dead.

Not my preference, but if you can't beat them, join them.

Except that the very same people who make that complaint will skewer you for trying to make the Fighter magical.

There is no joining them. You aren't allowed to.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Unacceptable. The Warlord is non-magical. Period. There could be a magical subclass (IMO, there should be one!), but the class, or any further half-hearted (or more like half-@$$ed) "Warlord Fighter" nonsense, must not, cannot be inherently magical. This is non-negotiable.

Let me put it this way: Would you accept the Fighter being classified as inherently just a little bit magical? Just a smidgeon--that no matter what the Fighter is, it is necessarily magical in nature, what with having superhuman endurance and speed and etc., etc.?

If you would not accept the Fighter being inherently magical, then I see no reason why I should accept the Warlord being so either. And if you would, why do you think that an inherently-magical Fighter would be in any way a "smooth" thing to accept for D&D as a whole?

while i agree with the fundamental statement being presented here i think 1) you're taking an overly hostile stance in defending the point, i mean i get it, 'just make the fighter blatantly magic' is not an acceptable solution that we have to constantly refute and we're all tired of needing to do so but this came across as unnecessarily agressive and 2) we need to remember the context of the world the 'nonmagical classes' exist in, everything has some degree of fundamental magic in it that facilitates the fantasy stuff that shouldn't be able to exist, a 40ft dragon not crumpling under it's own weight and being capable of flight IS because of the inherent magic of the world, and we don't question or criticise that, the nonmagic classes need to be given their own leeway to account for the inherent nature of the magical world fudging physics in their favour, but for all intents and purposes, they are still 'nonmagical'.

like previous edition's extraordinary skills, a rogue with a 40+ balance check can stand on a cloud, entirely nonmagically, because that's the sort of world this is.

 

[Pauln6]

It's tricky because you need to avoid letting high intelligence classes stealing great benefits from a low level dip. You could give fighters their intelligence bonus to initiative at level 3 as standard. You could also let them pick alternate weapon masteries for their chosen weapons based on intelligence but again, the risk is gifting the fighter's one advantage to other classes on a dip.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Except that the very same people who make that complaint will skewer you for trying to make the Fighter magical.

There is no joining them. You aren't allowed to.

Two of the fighter subclasses are already explicitly magical.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Two of the fighter subclasses are already explicitly magical.

Yes, but the point is the BASE fighter ISNT, the traditionally nonmagical class that has specific subsets who dabble in magic is a strong archetype, but you don’t get that when the baseclass also uses magic.

 

[mellored]

Yes, but the point is the BASE fighter ISNT, the traditionally nonmagical class that has specific subsets who dabble in magic is a strong archetype, but you don’t get that when the baseclass also uses magic.

The base class might use magic.

You can "insist that it was just years of hard work; endless hours thinking of the best stratagems, honing their minds into a razor sharp edge."

Blurr the lines a bit.

You can already shrug off mortal wounds by sleeping.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yes, but the point is the BASE fighter ISNT, the traditionally nonmagical class that has specific subsets who dabble in magic is a strong archetype, but you don’t get that when the baseclass also uses magic.

Aren’t we talking about a fighter subclass here? Because changing the core fighter class to use intelligence sounds like a very stupid idea!

 

[Pauln6]

Aren’t we talking about a fighter subclass here? Because changing the core fighter class to use intelligence sounds like a very stupid idea!

You could have class features that are usable more often with a higher intelligence or are more effective.

The problem is always making sure it benefits the fighter more than multiclass dips. Saying fighters at level 5 can add intelligence modifiers to initiative might work.

Maybe on warlord-style or tactical battlemaster manoeuvres, the roll on the superiority die can never be less than your intelligence modifier.

Maybe high level fighters can add intelligence modifiers to Dexterity saves.

There are a few options.

I have always thoughts that the Purple Dragon Knight/Baneret should have been tweaked to gain d6 superiority dice (with the Charisma manoeuvres for free plus a choice from the other warlord style manoeuvres instead of the very boring proficiency in persuasion.

There is scope for adding intelligence bonuses in there as well.