D&D 5E The Domains of Dread, listed by the power of their Dark Lord (using their CR)

[Iry]

Dark Lords come in many flavors. Some are combat monsters, others emotionally impactful, some are there to make you feel spooked.

Other factors radically alter effective DC, like fighting Strahd in his castle without doing a good job exploring the place first. Nobody likes Strahd when he's wearing a +2 Shield, +2 Plate, and the Staff of Power.

 

[Davies]

So that begs the question. What happened to Azalin?

I wonder if that Firan Zal'honan fellow in the "Travellers in the Mists" section might have some ideas on the subject.

 

[Stormonu]

Shouldn’t Lamordia also account for Adam (CR 5) and Aubreker (CR ??)

 

[jgsugden]

If you feel like there are definitive answers to how to replace a Darklord, how powerful a Darklord is, whether a Darklord can be defeated permanently ... I think you're going to need to read the book a bit more. Ravenloft is about anxiety, despair, and the twisting knife. Defeat from the hands of victory should be unexpectedly expected.

I have a homebrew Dread Domain where the Darklord is the Coward. They made a cowardly choice, and because they made that choice, 1000 years of destruction was rained down upon the world. They relive that day - every day - and although they try to change the outcome, they always give into their fear and let the world burn. This realm is the only way that PCs can discover how and why the world burned. It has been visited dozens of times since I introduced it in the early 90s. Each time the PCs go there, they think they're there to change the past, to save someone, etc... They never know it is primarily a lore dump. They get their chance to meet their objective - and have every indication that it will work - but in the end it always resets and their efforts are for naught ... but they get the chance to learn something essential (a silver lining that is really more important). I've used other Domains here and there over the years, mostly for a short adventure. This is the one that I think best implements the 'Ravenloft approach'.

 

[overgeeked]

So... I'm not sure I should bother arguing with you, because I don't disagree with your inherent premise. You can make each Domain as difficult as you like by populating it with foes as difficult or as easy as you choose. There is quite a lot of freedom in how you run these Domains in your games.

Likewise, you're free to pointlessly handicap entire domains because you inexplicably think the Dark Lord must have the biggest CR in their Domain. I'm just saying your assumption doesn't make a lick of sense.

HOWEVER, there is an assumption in the book that the Dark Lords are the most important NPCs in each Domain.

Most important, yes. But not necessarily the most powerful by CR. There are more forms of power than are reflected in hit points, DPR, and CR. Political power, control of resources, contacts, alliances, etc. How does immortality affect a creature's CR? Or the ability to block or allow passage through the Mists surrounding the Dark Lord's Domain? And as you quoted, the Dark Lords are immortal. How does that affect their CR?

I’m objecting to the notion that a Dark Lord's CR is reflective of how difficult the Domain is as a whole. The Dark Lord’s CR is not the difficulty of the Domain. It’s not a suggested level limit. This is literally never once suggested in the book. That's an assumption you are making. I'm just pointing out that it's your assumption and questioning why you'd make it.

And the book agrees with me: "Darklords range from monstrous tyrants to depraved individuals who otherwise appear as ordinary people. A Darklord’s position and powers stem from their deeds, not their game statistics. While some Darklords are deadly or possess foul gifts from the Dark Powers, many pose little threat in battle. Their menace is the result of capabilities beyond physical prowess."

The CR of a given Dark Lord is not an indicator of the "difficulty" of their Domain, nor is it a "level limit" for the creatures contained within.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Shouldn’t Lamordia also account for Adam (CR 5) and Aubreker (CR ??)

Well, Adam isn't mentioned at all, and his replacement is essentially Elise (Flesh Golem, CR 5). Baron Rudolph von Aubrecker is a brain in a jar (CR 3).

I did not bother to try and measure the Domains by all the other important NPCs... that would have gotten really complicated.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Likewise, you're free to pointlessly handicap entire domains because you inexplicably think the Dark Lord must have the biggest CR in their Domain. I'm just saying your assumption doesn't make a lick of sense.

Most important, yes. But not necessarily the most powerful by CR. There are more forms of power than are reflected in hit points, DPR, and CR. Political power, control of resources, contacts, alliances, etc. How does immortality affect a creature's CR? Or the ability to block or allow passage through the Mists surrounding the Dark Lord's Domain? And as you quoted, the Dark Lords are immortal. How does that affect their CR?

I’m objecting to the notion that a Dark Lord's CR is reflective of how difficult the Domain is as a whole. The Dark Lord’s CR is not the difficulty of the Domain. It’s not a suggested level limit. This is literally never once suggested in the book. That's an assumption you are making. I'm just pointing out that it's your assumption and questioning why you'd make it.

And the book agrees with me: "Darklords range from monstrous tyrants to depraved individuals who otherwise appear as ordinary people. A Darklord’s position and powers stem from their deeds, not their game statistics. While some Darklords are deadly or possess foul gifts from the Dark Powers, many pose little threat in battle. Their menace is the result of capabilities beyond physical prowess."

The CR of a given Dark Lord is not an indicator of the "difficulty" of their Domain, nor is it a "level limit" for the creatures contained within.

Hey man, I don't disagree. I don't really understand your antagonization here, because I'm not saying anyone should play a certain way. I just now that a lot of players and DMs are going to want to treat the Domains a lot like the experience in Curse of Strahd, with the Dark Lord being the BBEG. I don't think that's the only or best way to treat the Domains, but some folks are going to do that.

And of course CR matters. It's not the only or most important thing, but it is a fair assumption that PCs are going to be in more trouble in a Domain like Kalakeri, where there is conflict between a Death Knight, Rakshasa, and Arcanaloth, than in a politics-driven realm like Borca where the rulers are low-level humans. I can state it would be a lot easier to run a high-level campaign in Kalakeri than in Borca with those assumptions already set for me. So yes, there is an indicator there, though there are no level limits of any kind.

 

[overgeeked]

Hey man, I don't disagree. I don't really understand your antagonization here, because I'm not saying anyone should play a certain way.

But you are. And that's what I'm objecting to. Your OP presented the Dark Lords and their CR as the basis for the difficulty of the Domains. You're literally saying the CR of the Dark Lord is an indicator of how difficult the Domain is. You even replace the Dark Lord of their Domain with a different character who happens to have a higher CR.

This can provide a basic guideline for which Dark Lords a low-level party could reasonably tackle, and which ones they'd be hard-pressed to defeat.

Note: I assume the Great Brain (Bluetspur) is like an Elder Brain even though the book does not suggest this. Also, I know Alcio Metus isn't actually Darkon's Dark Lord, but she's the strongest warlord there...

Now, obviously one can do various tweaks and other tricks to make Dark Lords stronger or weaker (have Viktra Mordenheim pilot an Iron Golem mechsuit!) but the CRs are a decent guideline for what levels they expect PCs to tackle each domain. Consider how Curse of Strahd ends at around level 10, and Strahd himself is CR 15; the only domains really optimized for a challenge beyond level 10 are (maybe) Har'Akir and Kalakeri. Most domains are for lever levels, in fact much lower, although Hazlan, Darkon, and Kartakass are still fairly challenging Domains.

Running a full campaign from level 1 to 20 would be very difficult without boosting Dark Lord's stats, or using Domains not given center-stage in this book. That said, there is plenty of material to run a campaign to at least level 12.

I disagree with that kind of reductive representation. As does the book itself as shown in the quote I used.

And of course CR matters. It's not the only or most important thing, but it is a fair assumption that PCs are going to be in more trouble in a Domain like Kalakeri, where there is conflict between a Death Knight, Rakshasa, and Arcanaloth, than in a politics-driven realm like Borca where the rulers are low-level humans. I can state it would be a lot easier to run a high-level campaign in Kalakeri than in Borca with those assumptions already set for me. So yes, there is an indicator there, though there are no level limits of any kind.

Only if you assume that the PCs are only there to physically fight and defeat the Dark Lord in single combat...and also exclude literally everything else about the Domain...like any monsters, creatures, guards, friends, allies, supporters, etc. Those are incredibly bad assumptions to make.

 

[Weiley31]

Interesting. the 2e Ravenloft books said that if a Dark Lord dies, the next most evil person in the domain gets the job.

Yeah Azalin Rex, I'm gonna assume, somehow cheated the system ala Soth and now the Dark Powers are like "Oh BLOODY SMEG NOT AGAIN!!"


Meanwhile Darkon is tearing itself apart and the only thing that Management knows how to do at this point is fold it back into the mist till the next annual company meeting.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

But you are. And that's what I'm objecting to. Your OP presented the Dark Lords and their CR as the basis for the difficulty of the Domains. You're literally saying the CR of the Dark Lord is an indicator of how difficult the Domain is. You even replace the Dark Lord of their Domain with a different character who happens to have a higher CR.

I disagree with that kind of reductive representation. As does the book itself as shown in the quote I used.

Only if you assume that the PCs are only there to physically fight and defeat the Dark Lord in single combat...and also exclude literally everything else about the Domain...like any monsters, creatures, guards, friends, allies, supporters, etc. Those are incredibly bad assumptions to make.

This is one way, of many, to play the game. Outlining the Domains and the Dark Lords for folks to peruse is not inherently bad. I don't assume people need to play a certain way, so stop trying to put words in my mouth when I've explained my own thoughts in great detail.

I've repeated myself too many times to engage with you, when you clearly aren't interested a good faith discussion.