D&D 5E The Domains of Dread, listed by the power of their Dark Lord (using their CR)

[Urriak Uruk]

True... if you run them directly as that statblock says. Remember, the book says they have statblocks like spies or like nobles, not that they use that statblock exactly--and even then, you can change them.

So it's perfectly reasonable to say that Darklords can't be charmed or put to sleep magically or stuff like that. Or attempts to charm a Darklord bounce back on the caster, or cause psychic damage as the PCs open their mind to the alien evils of the Dark Power.

But even if you decide that no, Ivana has the spy statblock, no changes... that's OK. The PCs put her to sleep and slit her throat or get information out of her... well, they've now marked themselves as a target for every single one of her minions (who might be instantly aware that she's been affected in such a manner). And she's immortal, so she could come back the very next day. (And in Ivana's case, this would be a good way to get the attention of Ivan, who might just welcome the PCs into his playhouse.)

OK, sure, it would have been very nice if there was a section that read "Darklords can't be charmed or put to sleep magically, and are immune to the frightened condition unless it's directly related to their Torments."

But the lack of high power for the Darklords not new to this edition. Ivana was a 0th-level Human with 8 hp in 2e with no particular immunities, not even to poison (although she could always detect poison anyway, so it basically impossible to poison her). In 3e, she finally was immune to poison, and she was fairly high level: Aristocrat 3, Expert 4, and book-specific prestige class Court Poisoner 5, but even though she had a lot more hit points (115 hp), she would still be killed almost instantly in battle since relies entirely on close-ranged attacks (one of which is, admittedly, quite powerful) and doesn't wear armor.

Honestly, the only weirdness I find in the statblocks is that (A) they didn't say "If you own VGM, you can use this statblock from that book instead" Because let's face it, Vladeska should've been a warlord. And (B) in 2e, Hazlik was a 12th-level wizard but uses the Archmage statblock, while Tsien Cheng was a 20th-level wizard but only uses the Mage statblock.

I very much agree with this analysis. I think part of the reason it is set up this way, is that the designers thought of trying to structure these Domains as suggestions for different blocks of levels, to make it easier to structure a whole campaign by jumping from Domain to Domain. It's very easy to imagine a campaign starting in Borca, moving to Dimentlieu, then I'Cath, Kartakass, and ending in Har'Akir with the power level of Dark Lords (and their minions) scaling up as the players level, to keep the fear factor up.

Now, I don't think that's the only or even best way to run a campaign, and one could definitely run a mid or even high-level group in Borca, with Ivana being untouchable solely due to her web of connections and military protection. I do find the choice of statblocks indicative of something however, as you say it's interesting that they make Ivana a spy, when they could make her the far more powerful Assassin statblock instead (which would still fit her character well).

 

[Davies]

I personally think Drakov should probably be a warlord (Volo's, CR 12) instead of a knight (MM, CR 3).

 

[Disgruntled Hobbit]

CR 1 Dark Lords do sound hella weird
Yeah, not every adventure should be about killing the Dark Lord. But if every other monster in the domain is tougher and half the NPCs could kick the Dark Lord around the block... why are they still in charge?

 

[Tonguez]

CR 1 Dark Lords do sound hella weird
Yeah, not every adventure should be about killing the Dark Lord. But if every other monster in the domain is tougher and half the NPCs could kick the Dark Lord around the block... why are they still in charge?

They’re not in charge, the Dark Powers are, the Dark lord is a prisoner

 

[Urriak Uruk]

They’re not in charge, the Dark Powers are, the Dark lord is a prisoner

Well, sometimes they are also "in charge" in that they are the ruler of the Domain. Ankhetop is the ruler of Har'Akir for example. So he's a prisoner, but he's also the Pharoah of the Domain. Many of the Darklords have similar situations.

But there are other examples, like Harkon Lukas, where he's the Darklord but not the ruler (or in a position of power) of Kartakass.

 

[Charlaquin]

There isn't really a mechanism explained that I've noticed yet, but Chakuna replaced Ulrik von Kharkov in Valachan, so it's possible.

Chakuna swore to save her people. She entered the tournament freely, determined to turn the tables on von Kharkov or die. She vowed to sacrifice whatever it took to defeat the Darklord—but learned quickly that it takes monstrosity to beat a monster. Chakuna found von Kharkov's weakness, burned Castle Pantara to the ground, and kept the former Darklord's head.

So I suppose there is some implication that by "becoming a monster" you can replace a Dark Lord. This directly contradicts an earlier part which says Dark Lords are immortal and will eventually return, so it's not well explained.

The explanation I’ll be going with is that you can permanently kill a Dark Lord by gaining the attention of the Dark Powers - proving you’re the most evil sonofabitch in the Domain, thus enticing them to make you its Dark Lord instead. Then, of course, the previous Dark Lord will no longer be immortal, and can thus be permanently killed. Fits with the Chakuna and von Kharkov story, and makes Dark Lord succession a matter of constantly escalating evil instead of the dwindling evil that the old lore would have implied.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Right right, I'm not saying the DM should ever put her in a fight (they shouldn't, she wouldn't last). I'm saying that if the PCs ever try to force her in a fight, or even just try to cast simple spells like sleep or charm person, they'll probably work.

So even in Borca, where the focus is politics and family machinations, a PC could walk up to Ivana, cast charm person and learn key information or manipulate her in other ways.

This isn't going to be as easy as say against Ramya, who has abilities like magic resistance.

Anyway, I'm pointing out that CR does have several important limitations on these NPCs, even when these characters are not strictly your enemies.

You haven't really understood. Ivana is not a spy. Or maybe she is. Just like the is no canon explanation for where Azalin is, there is no canon stat block for Ivana (or any other dark lord). "Similar to a spy" is just suggesting where the DM should start if the story they are telling puts the PCs in a position where they might attack that character. The DM can give her any abilities they like, such as Immunity To Charm or Legendary Resistance. Or simply rule that the charm fails and she pretends to be charmed in order to trick the PCs.

If you look at a dark lord who is more likely to fight the PCs, like Chakuna. Sure, she has the abilities of a were-tiger, but she also has however many ranger levels she needs in order to kick the PC's backsides.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

You haven't really understood. Ivana is not a spy. Or maybe she is. Just like the is no canon explanation for where Azalin is, there is no canon stat block for Ivana (or any other dark lord). "Similar to a spy" is just suggesting where the DM should start if the story they are telling puts the PCs in a position where they might attack that character. The DM can give her any abilities they like, such as Immunity To Charm or Legendary Resistance. Or simply rule that the charm fails and she pretends to be charmed in order to trick the PCs.

If you look at a dark lord who is more likely to fight the PCs, like Chakuna. Sure, she has the abilities of a were-tiger, but she also has however many ranger levels she needs in order to kick the PC's backsides.

I've read the segment on Ivana, and that's a lot of conjecture. It says "similar to a spy," then lists out similar traits of Ivana that are unique to her. Most of them are not mechanical, but the one "Alchemist" is and points to her being able to prepare spells up to 7th level.

I don't dispute that a DM can add more abilities to her to make her as tough as they want, and there technically is no set "canon" stats for her. That said, it is interesting to me that the book describes her as "similar to a spy," when they could have easily made her "similar to an assassin," which is a much tougher enemy that is still thematically appropriate. Can a DM give her as many abilities as they want to make her as tough as an assassin? Sure I suppose, but then your not really "similar to a spy" anymore.

I also find the reverse true for a Darklord like Ramya, who is given this description;

Reborn as a death knight, Ramya desperately tries to hold on to or retake the Sapphire Throne in a cycle of victory and loss with her equally uncompromising siblings. Although an illusion disguises her deathless state, Ramya constantly feels the chill in her bones and her own crumbling flesh. Her existence has becomes one of constant struggle, doubt, and defeat as her obsessions shape all of Kalakeri.

This text is even less vague than the one for Ivana, pointing to conflict with Ramya being... well, really difficult for a low-level party.

Anyway, I'm not trying to sort Domains into certain levels only, because I think you can run adventures in each Domain for any level regardless of the Darklords themselves. I do enjoy trying to sort through the designers intentions here however, and the choices of monsters chosen to represent each Darklord intrigues me.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

but the one "Alchemist" is and points to her being able to prepare spells up to 7th level.

You are still trying to "deduce" a true stat block that does not exist.

I don't dispute that a DM can add more abilities to her to make her as tough as they want, and there technically is no set "canon" stats for her. That said, it is interesting to me that the book describes her as "similar to a spy," when they could have easily made her "similar to an assassin," which is a much tougher enemy that is still thematically appropriate. Can a DM give her as many abilities as they want to make her as tough as an assassin? Sure I suppose, but then your not really "similar to a spy" anymore.

Several reasons: spy is a baseline. it's easier to take a stat block and make it more powerful by adding stuff. It's also another way of saying "has rogue levels". Assassin is a way of saying "has more rogue levels". How many levels is appropriate depends on the level of the party. The other reason not to use the Assassin stat block is it's best move by far is to stab with a knife. Ivana isn't going to stab you with an knife. She is going to poison you. She probably already has poisoned you.

But most of the time, it doesn't matter. She doesn't have a stat block, so she can do whatever the DM says she can do.

This text is even less vague than the one for Ivana, pointing to conflict with Ramya being... well, really difficult for a low-level party.

Which is meaningless, since there is no reason why low level party would get to meet her, never mind fight her.

 

[Coroc]

Just a thought; is there any mechanism (or implication) for PCs to become the Darklord of a Domain either by replacing an existing Darklord by getting the attention of the Dark Powers?

In 2e if you managed to do something very evil within RL you could become the next DL but there was not much mechanic about this since this makes you a npc instantly (often already before that on Powers check fail level 5 or 6 already the DM took over your char)