The Essentials Fighter

I must support MrMyth here:

if not so much easier, it makes combat way better:

"I attack the goblin/ I swing my sword at the Goblin" sounds much more like an RPG fighter than:

"I use reaping strike power at the Goblin"

It has everything to do with flavour...

Which supports my secondary thesis that they're appealing to the old crowd, not a new one ;)

As for multiple modifiers... we haven't seen how this scales as you level. I'm assuming there must be more modifiers, or this is going to be not merely simple, but dry toast boring. If I'm wrong on that, I'll be happy to be wrong.

But from the pittance of information they've released, this doesn't look like it conforms to their stated design goals. Again, if I'm wrong, I'll be happy to be wrong when we have enough information to say so.

I wouldn't ever play the thing, myself, but I'm on record around here as saying I wanted a couple "simple" classes for things like introducing my nephews to the game. I honestly don't think this does that. Hence my disappointment. I think I'd be better served simply rolling up an original 4e Fighter for them, with deliberately simple power selections pre-made and giving them a more limited set of choices as they level. I'd rather have something they could actually take ownership of without having to wrestle with additional minor actions and reminding them to use "Power Strike" and so on.
 

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Also, see my edit above. Shuffling complexity around to tasks that human beings are actually quite bad at, overall, isn't usually a good thing. For example, we're better at choice than memory, IME and according to my data. We're also not real good at multiple modifiers. Ditching a system that emphasizes choice for one that emphasizes applying previously chosen modifiers may not be playing to our strengths, as a species.

Speaking from my personal DMing experience, I tend to remember auras more then I remember when a monster has a mark ability.

As far as the defensive thing, I think it might end up being easier for players to remember anyone around me that doesn't attack me gets a -2 then to remember when someone was marked. (And less clutter on the board to boot...)


Will have to see it in action though.
 



I wouldn't ever play the thing, myself, but I'm on record around here as saying I wanted a couple "simple" classes for things like introducing my nephews to the game. I honestly don't think this does that. Hence my disappointment. I think I'd be better served simply rolling up an original 4e Fighter for them, with deliberately simple power selections pre-made and giving them a more limited set of choices as they level. I'd rather have something they could actually take ownership of without having to wrestle with additional minor actions and reminding them to use "Power Strike" and so on.

Fair enough! I do think you are underestimating how easy it would be for them to just always assume they are Defending and Cleaving, and never worry about switching stances at all - and occasionally saying 'Power Strike!' when they want to. More complexity than that will only be there if you want it.

But it is also true you can set up a pretty easy PHB Build with a couple straightforward powers. I do think that between Combat Challenge and Combat Opportunity, you'll run into a lot more complications than anything the Knight has to offer, but in the end, if it works for you, that's all that matters. :)
 

What is easier for one person may be harder for the other one... i also believe auras are easier to grasp, but actually non of my players find it hard to use powers or distinguish between combat superiority and combat challenge...
 

So, is someone up to the challenge of speculating about the concrete mechanics of the Battle guardian class feature? How would you design it (given it might be a less complex combat superiority class feature)?
 

Well, it certainly seems to live up to the original mission statement of Essentials: an easier class for beginners to grasp.

The fighter used to be the classic 'easy class,' but in 3e, it started being pretty hard - at least, hard to build and play effectively. In 4e, no class is really /that/ easy (as simplistic as a 1e fighter), but Strikers are probably the least trouble to figure out and play.

The Knight is back to being an easy class. It's still got some inevitable 4e complexity. The qualifiers on the Defender's Aura might have newbies scratching their heads a bit ("What's marked? Why does that stop my Aura from working?"), but that's minor. The basic-attack-enhancing mechanic does make the Knight good at OAs and charging, though.

The inability to swap anything to or from regular fighter builds (beyond Utility Power, since they see to get those) makes it more like a separate class than a sub-class. The lack of daily powers (again, except perhaps for the odd utility) gives the Knight different resource-management issues than other classes, and could lead to marked imbalance depending on the length of adventuring 'days,' the how varied the level of challenge presented by encounter is, and to what degree challenges for the day are 'telegraphed' or 'unpredictable.'

A class with fewer or no daily resource-management issues is favored by a DMing style that tends towards long adventuring days with unpredictable encounters - which forces characters with dailies to hoard or run out of them, giving them many occassions when they can't or won't use their best power. Conversely, if encounters tend to be very difficult and spaced a day or more apart, so you have single-encounter days where daily powers can be used agressively, then classes like the Knight tend to fade into the background as their actions fail to stack up.

Of course, the availability of the Fighter makes that much less problematic than before. In campaigns that clearly favor classes with dailies, Fighters will be played, and the Essentials alternatives ignored.


I must support MrMyth here:

if not so much easier, it makes combat way better:

"I attack the goblin/ I swing my sword at the Goblin" sounds much more like an RPG fighter than:

"I use reaping strike power at the Goblin"

It has everything to do with flavour...
No one appends 'power' to reaping strike like that, they go "Reaping Strike!" I've seen a number of fighters played, and the players always had a blast with the powers, the anime fans in particular litterally shouting out the names in-character.

And, I really don't think "I make my melee *basic* attack against another goblin, again, since that's all I can do..." is all that riveting or flavorful. "Hey, Knight, when are you going to learn an 'intermediate' attack?"


Now, fighter fans have always had the option - and many of us exercised it with great abandon - of at least trying to describe each futilely repetative attack a little more interestingly. Some DMs would even hand out the odd bonus if the attack you described seemed particularly creative or tactically sound.

In 4e, though, we actually get the same breadth, variety and power of options as casters. I know that pissed some folks off, but I don't see a reason to turn the clock back on that, and Essentials isn't doing so, since the existing Fighter builds are always there in all their resource-management-required glory.
 
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It doesn't seem easy to play, per se. It seems easy to build and play for the first time.

That's my thought as well... It's a class that lets someone get up and running without having to put a lot of effort into things before he's even decided if he actually wants to play the game or not.
 

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