The Essentials Fighter

[Klaus]

That's my thought as well... It's a class that lets someone get up and running without having to put a lot of effort into things before he's even decided if he actually wants to play the game or not.

So THAT's the big WotC strategy!

Ninja recruiting!

"D&D: You'll be playing it before you know it!"

 

[Stalker0]

It doesn't seem easy to play, per se. It seems easy to build and play for the first time.

I think its easier to play because the way the stances work, you don't have to change them all the time if you don't want to.

Lets say I just turn on my +2 damage stance and never take it off. I add +2 to damage and I'm done. This allows newer players to grow with the mechanics. For a while they are just a fighter doing damage. If after a while, they get comfortable with teh rules and want to branch out, they try that cleaving aura.

With encounters and dailies, the problem is in forgetting these powers you give up a lot of your effectiveness. If I forget to do my 2W and 3W powers than I'm giving up a lot of damage. If I choose the +2 stance and never switch to cleaving strike I don't give up that much.

 

[Markn]

I absolutely agree with Stalker0.

 

[SteveC]

In looking at this class, they've managed to do something that hasn't happened in all the time 4E has been out: they've made a class I have no interest in playing whatsoever.

That sounds flippant, but considering the diversity of design that has come out, it was pretty difficult to do. The key here is that this is much more of a 3X fighter, which was the class that I'd never play either.

So I'm sure it's going to create some interest with people who haven't liked the complexity of 4X classes, and that's a good thing, but man does it seem dull to me.

--Steve

 

[Melkor]

No one appends 'power' to reaping strike like that, they go "Reaping Strike!" I've seen a number of fighters played, and the players always had a blast with the powers, the anime fans in particular litterally shouting out the names in-character.

Hi Tony,

Most of us who have played the game for more than a year or two have probably 'seen a number of fighters played,' and my personal experience differs quite a bit from yours.

The gaming groups I have been in had relatively few anime fans, and from the conversations with players that I had shortly after 4E came out, and since, the use and description of 'powers' by Martial Characters in game (particularly ones with an anime feel), tended to detract from their experience rather than enhance it - especially the long-time D&D players that have played early editions of the game.

After emailing a couple of them the link to the Knight insider article, the two players are really looking forward to the essentials series because they feel like some of the flavor they enjoy will be 'coming back'.

I agree with them, but that's just my opinion, and we are all entitled to those.

 

[Dan'L]

The basic-attack-enhancing mechanic does make the Knight good at OAs and charging, though.

I have to admit, this is the bit that bugs me the most (based on what we've seen of the build so far; there may be a rules restriction coming that we haven't seen yet: "you do not benefit from stances when making OAs or charging" or similar, but I somehow doubt there will be one.)

Basically a Knight can do, from level 1 with no other outlay of resources, what another fighter cannot approach doing until paragon levels, and even then it takes certain weapon choices, stat allocations, feats, and/or PP selections: He can use his at-will bonus on every OA and charge he makes.

-Dan'L

 

[Henry]

Didya notice something else there? Unless I misread it, I didn't see the words "push, pull, or slide" anywhere in those power listings! Meaning that of the material this showed us, you could VERY easily run it in a 4E play by post game with minimal fudging by the DM and players on those effects. Other than "adjacent", which is pretty easily decided, of course.

I'm not saying "this means the fighter will have no movement effects whatsoever," but it could possibly mean a player could choose a track that would make it easy to run in a PBP game without having to rely on guesswork to value the power in an online game. Something to think about...

 

[Remathilis]

Didya notice something else there? Unless I misread it, I didn't see the words "push, pull, or slide" anywhere in those power listings! Meaning that of the material this showed us, you could VERY easily run it in a 4E play by post game with minimal fudging by the DM and players on those effects. Other than "adjacent", which is pretty easily decided, of course.

I'm not saying "this means the fighter will have no movement effects whatsoever," but it could possibly mean a player could choose a track that would make it easy to run in a PBP game without having to rely on guesswork to value the power in an online game. Something to think about...

That would make me happy panda!

 

[Klaus]

In looking at this class, they've managed to do something that hasn't happened in all the time 4E has been out: they've made a class I have no interest in playing whatsoever.

That sounds flippant, but considering the diversity of design that has come out, it was pretty difficult to do. The key here is that this is much more of a 3X fighter, which was the class that I'd never play either.

So I'm sure it's going to create some interest with people who haven't liked the complexity of 4X classes, and that's a good thing, but man does it seem dull to me.

--Steve

May I ask you why?

Picture the PH1 Fighter, listing only the Marking ability (but not Combat Superitority), Reaping Strike, Cleave and one Encounter power. What myriad options does he have that what we've seen from the knight so far doesn't?

Instead of having two different at-will powers (which are just alterations of a basic attack), the knight has two class features that alter his basic attacks. Instead of having a mark that requires him to attack a creature, he marks every adjacent enemy.

At the end of the day, the Guardian Fighter and the Knight Fighter are doing the same things in slightly different ways.

 

[SteveC]

May I ask you why?

Picture the PH1 Fighter, listing only the Marking ability (but not Combat Superitority), Reaping Strike, Cleave and one Encounter power. What myriad options does he have that what we've seen from the knight so far doesn't?

Instead of having two different at-will powers (which are just alterations of a basic attack), the knight has two class features that alter his basic attacks. Instead of having a mark that requires him to attack a creature, he marks every adjacent enemy.

At the end of the day, the Guardian Fighter and the Knight Fighter are doing the same things in slightly different ways.

I think that's a fair point. We really may not be seeing the most important features of the class, and I'm happy to say I'm wrong if there was something more interesting that isn't being illustrated here. I am a pretty big 4X fan and I want the line to succeed.

With that said, I'm bored with this class because there isn't much to it. Is it a bad preview? Well, time will tell, but we have at wills that do a small amount of extra damage or cleave. The encounter is rolling an extra die of damage once per encounter? Ugh! Now I have already seen that there's a huge amount of extra damage that can be added on to a basic attack, so I have no doubt we'll see a very strikerish form of fighter is easily possible and that could be a useful addition to a group.

What I'm not seeing is a strong defender aspect to the class or any real amount of control. I play a fighter at the moment (and this is the first edition I've done so since back with first edition!) and the thing that got me interested in the class was in a discussion of a martial controller. Someone (and I forget who it was) said you don't need a martial controller, because the fighter is it already.

Once I read that, I was intrigued and decided I'd write up a character who was designed to control the battle and manage it. One of the other players in my group plays a warlord, and together we pretty much handle the flow of combat in that group. That's a very complex character to play that's a lot of fun for me. Now I certainly wouldn't expect Essentials to give me that level of control, I'd expect to see something more than their Defender Aura.

What this preview is showing me is a very simple character who can do a fair bit of damage, but not much else. I think there is a strong incentive to have that kind of character available, since there are players who want simplicity and to do some damage and have that 10 second turn. Heck, I've already seen that with the new magic missile: at one of the Encounters I was at, a player just pointed at a monster and announced it took 5 points of damage as his turn for the entire battle!

Maybe the new Essential's fighter can do more controllery and defendery sorts of things, but we're not seeing it here.

So that's my thought... I'm not calling this a bad class, it's just boring from what we've seen. And if there are all sorts of interesting things we haven't seen, well, I'd say this isn't the best preview.