D&D General The Great Railroad Thread

[Scott Christian]

Railroading, agency, blah, blah, blah...

It is amazing these conversations continue like they do. Yet, if you sit down at any convention, at any gaming store, or at most households, you see the exact same game being played: DM describes scenario, players react, DM tallies results, and then the DM or players describe what happened.

Of course there are exceptions. The DM that just tells the story, or the player that refuses to interact, or the DM that never prompts thinking they are giving their players agency, or the player that always must go against the grain or attack their teammates. These all exist. But the truth of the matter is they exist in such small quantities, that it rarely impacts gaming tables that are literally everywhere throughout the US.

 

[kermit4karate]

I see you’ve made yourself at home here, and even met the locals. Charming lot, aren’t they?

Yes...but I'll be the first to admit that I can be similarly charming (in the way you used it) and suffer from the same personality quirks, behavioral tendencies and emotional afflictions as most others.

I wonder how many people are truly only visiting enworld because they like RPGs and not at all because they're also a little lonely, bored, discontent with life, insecure about something, nostalgic for the old days, etc. I know in my case I do like RPGs (of course), but I'm also a little nostalgic for the old days, overwhelmed by certain responsibilities and disturbed by events in real life.

I'd love to see Humility incorporated as an attribute for actual humans. Like, to occasionally meet people with an 18 in Humility in real life? Wouldn't that be nice?

 

[kermit4karate]

Railroading, agency, blah, blah, blah...

It is amazing these conversations continue like they do. Yet, if you sit down at any convention, at any gaming store, or at most households, you see the exact same game being played: DM describes scenario, players react, DM tallies results, and then the DM or players describe what happened.

Of course there are exceptions. The DM that just tells the story, or the player that refuses to interact, or the DM that never prompts thinking they are giving their players agency, or the player that always must go against the grain or attack their teammates. These all exist. But the truth of the matter is they exist in such small quantities, that it rarely impacts gaming tables that are literally everywhere throughout the US.

Truer words were never spoken, Scott.

And yet, here we go again! Watch out! The creeping scourge of railroading in D&D, wherein DMs confine players to rigidly predetermined paths and tie them to uncomfortable chairs, is eroding the spirit of collaborative storytelling and diminishing the freedom that fuels the game's imaginative heart worldwide!!!! ALL IS LOST!!!!

 

[Scott Christian]

Truer words were never spoken, Scott.

And yet, here we go again! Watch out! The creeping scourge of railroading in D&D, wherein DMs confine players to rigidly predetermined paths and tie them to uncomfortable chairs, is eroding the spirit of collaborative storytelling and diminishing the freedom that fuels the game's imaginative heart worldwide!!!! ALL IS LOST!!!!

That is funny.

I really do wish there was a better style of discussion when it came to playing D&D. For example, "I ran Rime of the Frostmaiden, and in the beginning of the adventure my players really took to the chwingas. So I had to create an epic side quest that involved them. Here is what I did..." Or something like, "I ran Rime of the Frostmaiden and my players fell in love with the chwingas. Tell me how you would incorporate them into the rest of the adventure."

 

[Maxperson]

It's tough to make any conclusive, definitive statements about railroading or much of anything here without it causing a battle because there are so many profoundly different definitions and strong opinions (mine included). Some folks define "railroading" simply, with very clearcut boundaries on the term; others define it similarly, but still differently enough to cause confusion; others define it completely differently but throw in their lot with others they actually kinda disagree with but they've formed an alliance for whatever reason; others just refuse to ever concede a point about anything ever; others only want to massage their ego by repeatedly taking their emotional adversaries out of context.

This is true, but if you look around the internet, one definition shows up a lot more than the others. The DM forcing the players to a point of his choosing against the players' wishes. Not influencing. Forcing.

Some of the more obscure definitions really floor me. Any influence at all is railroading. Simply making things interesting is railroading. Playing a traditional game is automatically railroading. That said...

It's all very Shakespearean in its dysfunction!

...I refuse to ever concede on this point!

 

[pemerton]

Railroading, agency, blah, blah, blah...

It is amazing these conversations continue like they do. Yet, if you sit down at any convention, at any gaming store, or at most households, you see the exact same game being played: DM describes scenario, players react, DM tallies results, and then the DM or players describe what happened.

Let's grant that this is true. It doesn't tell us very much about railroading.

How did the GM decide what scenario to describe? Or what to describe as happening in response to the actions the players declare for their PCs? That is what makes the difference, when it comes to railroading.

Back when I played in a club environment (quite a while ago now), the difference in methods for answering those questions was real. There were players who joined the game I was GMing because they preferred the methods used at our table - which were more player-oriented - than the methods used by the GMs in the games they were leaving - which were much more GM-driven.

Truer words were never spoken, Scott.

And yet, here we go again! Watch out! The creeping scourge of railroading in D&D, wherein DMs confine players to rigidly predetermined paths and tie them to uncomfortable chairs, is eroding the spirit of collaborative storytelling and diminishing the freedom that fuels the game's imaginative heart worldwide!!!! ALL IS LOST!!!!

There's no need to use hyperbole to make fun of people who prefer different methodologies from you.

 

[soviet]

Truer words were never spoken, Scott.

And yet, here we go again! Watch out! The creeping scourge of railroading in D&D, wherein DMs confine players to rigidly predetermined paths and tie them to uncomfortable chairs, is eroding the spirit of collaborative storytelling and diminishing the freedom that fuels the game's imaginative heart worldwide!!!! ALL IS LOST!!!!

I'm really sorry that the forum rules or local bylaws where you are make it mandatory for you to participate in discussions you consider to be beneath you.

 

[kermit4karate]

I'm really sorry that the forum rules or local bylaws where you are make it mandatory for you to participate in discussions you consider to be beneath you.

Don't be sorry. It's OK.

 

[bloodtide]

Nah. You can't find it, because it's not what modules are about. They make no assumption whatsoever about the players not engaging. They are simply written with the assumption that the module will be played, so everything in it is geared towards the module going forward.

99% of players are going to search that wagon. Not searching isn't nearly as common as you're trying to make it out to be.

Odd, plenty of adventure modules have things like "the PCs are walking along in the Dark Woods and stop to rest for the night in some old castle ruins". This is what the adventure says happens, pure 100% railroad: it has to happen for the adventure to start. The hook and the attack are in the ruins, so the PCs have to be there.

And just to be clear, when I say "Most Adventure Modules", I'm saying most RPG modules for most games published over the last 50 years, though with a focus on D&D. I hope your not thinking "most adventure modules" is just "the handful of official WotC 5E D&D ones.

How did the GM decide what scenario to describe? Or what to describe as happening in response to the actions the players declare for their PCs? That is what makes the difference, when it comes to railroading.
.

All very true.

 

[Maxperson]

Odd, plenty of adventure modules have things like "the PCs are walking along in the Dark Woods and stop to rest for the night in some old castle ruins". This is what the adventure says happens, pure 100% railroad: it has to happen for the adventure to start. The hook and the attack are in the ruins, so the PCs have to be there.

The hook is wherever the DM wants it to be. In the castle, the next inn, the kender's backpack(how did it get there?!), or wherever else.

If the group has a thing against adventuring and won't investigate castle ruins for some weird reason, the DM shouldn't put the hook there.

And just to be clear, when I say "Most Adventure Modules", I'm saying most RPG modules for most games published over the last 50 years, though with a focus on D&D. I hope your not thinking "most adventure modules" is just "the handful of official WotC 5E D&D ones.

Nope. I'm talking from Basic/1e on.