D&D 5E The Size of Books

[delericho]

I will never touch DDI or anything like it. It is one of the reasons I never invested in 4e. Sorry, but your plan sucks.

It sucks for you. To be honest, it doesn't thrill me all that much.

But print is dying. If WotC don't at least make 5e available in eBook format, it would be a horrible mistake. And of course, the moment you go to an electronic format, there's so much more you can do by not being bound to the notion of "books".

Additionally, as I also noted up-thread, it's no longer sales of books that form the foundation of the strategy for either 4e or Pathfinder. In both cases, the key thing is subscriptions - to DDI in the case of 4e, and to all the various product lines in the case of Pathfinder. Guaranteed sales beats uncertain sales, even if the overall total is somewhat smaller.

(Incidentally, within the next 2-3 years, I expect to see Paizo start offering a PDF-only version of their subscriptions at a reduced price. A few years after that, once adoption has reached a critical level, I would expect them to start phasing out the print versions of some of their supplements altogether, probably starting with the Pathfinder Modules and Pathfinder Companion lines. For the same reason - print is dying.)

I play D&D at my table with pencil and paper...

So do I. But in the last two years I've seen widespread adoption of iPhone/iPad usage at my table - a couple of my players use their devices for SRD lookups. And the ability to do so is incredibly useful.

I really think it is that iPad that's the game-changer. Suddenly, lugging around all those physical books looks like madness (not least because my back just won't take it any more). If instead of bringing 30+ books, any of which might be useful in a session, I can instead bring one device loaded with all the same information, it's really a no-brainer.

 

[Blackbrrd]

What I hope for is rules and adventures published in a digital friendly format. No pages, no multiple column layout and not too much "decoration" for the pages and minimal use of tables. This would make it possible to read on multiple devices, including smartphones.

I would like to have a digital format that is concise and would rather have 50 pages of rules than 300 pages. Additional pages would probably be needed for things like spells, monsters and magical items, but the core rules? 50 pages should do it in my opinion.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

As I enjoy books like Hero 5th ed Revised and Pathfinder for book length I think I tend to be a bit larger than most here.

I'd want at least 240 pages if not more in the PH, with a little less artwork than is standard. I personally do not like Digest size at all - it find them just a bit hard to reference in game. I can sit and read them like I do a paperback, but I find traditionally sized game books much better for referece.

 

[Razjah]

I'd want at least 240 pages if not more in the PH, with a little less artwork than is standard. I personally do not like Digest size at all - it find them just a bit hard to reference in game. I can sit and read them like I do a paperback, but I find traditionally sized game books much better for referece.

That is interesting, I've never had a problem with the digest sized books for reference use; I didn't consider if other people would. What exactly was the problem with the digest sized books at the table? Maybe something can be done to make them more use-able for people who share your dislike for them.

As for the page size, I think that is a bit high. I don't want my players books too much bigger than 240 pages, the size can really turn players off learning a new edition/system. I've been able to get lots of people to learn Savage Worlds, but getting people to shift from 4e to Pathfinder was a lot more difficult. Why do you like them to be so long? I prefer like the shorter books for the lighter and easier to use systems and for teaching people how to play quickly.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

I didn't consider if other people would. What exactly was the problem with the digest sized books at the table?

I prefer like the shorter books for the lighter and easier to use systems and for teaching people how to play quickly.

Point 1 - old. Bad eyes easier to see it on a bigger page.

Point 2 - I like really crunch systems. Hero is my primary system - it's 5th ed single rulebook was nearly 600 pages. Dresden Files is 400 Pages. Those are books with serious meat to them. The 4E Martial Power 2 felt like a pamphlet to me - not a book.

I'm the type that tends for total system mastery - I don't GM a game I understand it inside and out - I want to be able to understand and know a system completely inside out before I make rulings. And I tend towards traditional GM/Player authority - GM is the world and all NPCS, and players just play the character (no shared narritive control or anything) so crunch highly sim-esque games work for my playstle.

I also enjoy working with a game away from the table (making characters, reading rules, making adventures, figuring out house rules) as mouch (or more) than play at the table - small books with non robust rules don't give me enough meat to enjoy that side of gaming.

 

[Razjah]

I'm almost completely the opposite. I want a clear, easy to use system, one that I can teach people how to play quickly and we can get to the game. I also really enjoy collaborative story telling, with player input or player/pc driven stories.

I also really like working the game away from the table, but I don't really want a heavy system to be my medium.

Here's hoping 5e can match both. Although I don't think they will go with the giant tome you prefer. The combined size will probably do that, but D&D seems to be going back to the sacred cows and the PBH, DMG, and MM is too encoded into D&D (all editions) for that to go away. This won't match what i prefer either, but hopefully the game is awesome.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

I'm almost completely the opposite. I want a clear, easy to use system, one that I can teach people how to play quickly and we can get to the game. I also really enjoy collaborative story telling, with player input or player/pc driven stories..

Player drive stories is something I do - just not player defining an NPC or something in the environment.
As our group has been together for going on 20 years (and we are all serious Hero players) the easy to learn systems for new players doesn't come up.

But everyone has different playstyles and approaches. Even if I don't play Next, I already see things I plan to houserule into my current 3.x/Pathfinder/d20 melange I play now.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

Here's hoping 5e can match both. Although I don't think they will go with the giant tome you prefer. The combined size will probably do that, but D&D seems to be going back to the sacred cows and the PBH, DMG, and MM is too encoded into D&D (all editions) for that to go away. This won't match what i prefer either, but hopefully the game is awesome.

True.

And I am one of the people that actually prefer the basic layout and structure of the 1st ed PH over something like 4E. I found it easier to read, and with non slick paper, easy to make notes on. But that will never happen.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I prefer bigger books! One time someone shot me in the back but I was just fine because the bullet didn't get through my copy of the Pathfinder Core Book that was in my backpack! Would I still be alive today If I had some softcover low priced book there instead? I think not