D&D (2024) Things You Think Would Improve the Game That We WON'T See

[mellored]

Why force the design of being tough to be limited to only be available via a single feat choice? Its fine to have more than one vector to increase HP.

Seems redundant.

It would be weird for Strength to define that value.

Works fine in Cyberpunk 2077. They call it Body.

making D&D look and feel less like D&D.

This is the "not going to happen" thread.

I sincerely doubt those scores will change. Could possibly get rid of Toughness though.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Disagree. It's just a thing with no intrinsic value.

Disagree. Accessibility is an intrinsic value. I know you prefer complex.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Accessibility is an intrinsic value.

Agreed. Accessibility is an intrinsic value for civilized society that encourages for the allowance for all people, of all backgrounds, including people who have different kinds or levels of intelligence or other accessibility challenges. For the people who say "The rules should only be complex," do you have any care for people who are neurodivergent from your own experience? People who might have a hard time with complexity?

Simple design of an entertainment activity is inclusionary. A simple design is perfectly accessible by a complex-preferring mind, and that complex-preferring mind can make the simple more complex. A complex mind has the freedom to choose to go either way.

Complex design of an entertainment activity is exclusionary. A complex design is inaccessible to more people, and some of those people don't have the luxury to choose between complex and simple. It's harder to remove complex functions ingrained in an activity than to add complexity to a simple activity.

I'm not the smartest hoe in the toolshed. I value Simplicity as a baseline, and for Complexity to be a dial to modify that experience.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Disagree. Accessibility is an intrinsic value. I know you prefer complex.

Simplicity and accessibility are not the same thing, but yes, I do prefer complex, because I want options and am fine with putting in some effort to get what I want.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Agreed. Accessibility is an intrinsic value for civilized society that encourages for the allowance for all people, of all backgrounds, including people who have different kinds or levels of intelligence or other accessibility challenges. For the people who say "The rules should only be complex," do you have any care for people who are neurodivergent from your own experience? People who might have a hard time with complexity?

Simple design of an entertainment activity is inclusionary. A simple design is perfectly accessible by a complex-preferring mind, and that complex-preferring mind can make the simple more complex. A complex mind has the freedom to choose to go either way.

Complex design of an entertainment activity is exclusionary. A complex design is inaccessible to more people, and some of those people don't have the luxury to choose between complex and simple. It's harder to remove complex functions ingrained in an activity than to add complexity to a simple activity.

I'm not the smartest hoe in the toolshed. I value Simplicity as a baseline, and for Complexity to be a dial to modify that experience.

I don't recall claiming that rules should only be complex. However, I certainly don't believe that rules should only be simple, or that there's something wrong with design that doesn't strive for as much simplicity as the concept being depicted allows for. That way lies boredom. Levels of complexity are better, if you insist that every game must be made for the widest possible audience. Separate games would IMO be even better than that.

By the way, I'm sure you're calling me out for not valuing simplicity in the way you did wasn't intended to paint that opinion as anti-diverse, right?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Simplicity and accessibility are not the same thing, but yes, I do prefer complex, because I want options and am fine with putting in some effort to get what I want.

No. But they have an intersection.
And as you could read in the KISS article, one enables the other...

But hey. You want to put a lot of thought into your games. Which is ok. It is just not what many people want.
There is a reason why in the last 20 years games have gone back from 30 page manuals back to 4 pages...

It is not because companies want to save the trees.

 

[CleverNickName]

Taking this to the logical conclusion, we would end up reducing all ability scores to just three:

Power: a measure of your character's ability to harm, control, or influence others or their surroundings.
Defense: a measure of your character's ability to resist the harm control, or influence of others or their surroundings.
Luck: a measure of how lucky or fortunate your character is.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No. But they have an intersection.
And as you could read in the KISS article, one enables the other...

But hey. You want to put a lot of thought into your games. Which is ok. It is just not what many people want.
There is a reason why in the last 20 years games have gone back from 30 page manuals back to 4 pages...

It is not because companies want to save the trees.

"What many people want" is likely relevant to the holder of the biggest RPG IP dedicated to squeezing the most possible profit out of their customer base to give to their shareholders and executives, but frankly it's not relevant to me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Taking this to the logical conclusion, we would end up reducing all ability scores to just three:

Power: a measure of your character's ability to harm, control, or influence others or their surroundings.
Defense: a measure of your character's ability to resist the harm control, or influence of others or their surroundings.
Luck: a measure of how lucky or fortunate your character is.

Sounds like that would please several people here.

 

[CleverNickName]

Sounds like that would please several people here.

Yeah, there's a group of people on ENWorld (small, but loud for their size) that hates D&D and wants it to fail. I'm not sure why; maybe they just hate tall poppies?

"I hate D&D and everything it stands for. I hate its history, I hate what it's become, I hate its game mechanics, I hate the company that produces it, and I wish every day for its painful demise. Anyway, here's my advice on how to make D&D great!"