Tips to create and play an effective druid?

[Shin Okada]

I saw only 3 druid PCs in action, one guardian, one predator, & one swarm all in heroic tier. All of them seemed to be ..... mediocre at best, and had some troubles.

Their ranged and area powers are not as powerful nor useful comparing to those of the other controllers. While their melee powers are not that bad, but not particularly good either. And they are fragile as a melee combatant. Swarm druid is a little bit tougher than the others but still not tough enough to stay in melee combat.

Am I (and my friends who played druids) missing something? Are their good tips to make them shine?

 

[circadianwolf]

Well, swarm druids without pre-errata Hide Armor Expertise are lost above heroic tier, as they get to either tank their armor class or lose their class features.

Druids can make very good melee Polearm Momentum users. Take Battle Awareness to multiclass fighter (a great feat on its own), then Polearm Momentum (which also works on spears) and use an Alfsair Spear (which functions as a totem). Add on some way of extending your slides (usually Rushing Cleats, or Battering Shield if you ignore the druids and shields errata) and Savage Rend is now an at-will prone, which is pretty good control. (Is it sad that fighters have the best controller feat in the game, barring perhaps Psychic Lock? Yes. But fighters get all the best toys in 4E.)

Ruthless Killer (from D382) makes Grasping Claws an at-will immobilize, which can turn you into a pseudo-defender. It was great for pre-nerf swarm druids, and is now mostly useful to guardians who buff their defensive capabilities.

Druids also have Fire Hawk, which is an amazing at-will. Predators have Thorn Spray, a great encounter blast that drops defenses by -4 or -5 at level 1. The summoning dailies are great, too, in that they add another body to the combat and don't require an action to attack with.

Druids definitely take more finesse to play than other classes (as do controllers in general, but druids are probably even the most difficult of controllers).

Guardian druids shouldn't be fragile, though, and neither should be swarm druids with a decent AC; they have HP equivalent to a striker or leader with a high CON, certainly more staying power than most rogues or rangers or even warlords. Predator druids are highly mobile--more like rogues and rangers in that regard--and should be able to generally stay out of significant danger.

 

[Stumblewyk]

I'm playing a 7th-level human Guardian Druid multiclassed into Shaman (for RP reasons). My druid is INSANELY flexible, and that's what makes him so invaluable to the party. If there are enemy casters, I lock them down in Beast form (and with my summoned wolf), if there are enemy minions, or swarms of non-minions, I'm wiping them out with area at-wills, and hindering their movement if they weren't minions. If something gets up on top of him, I knock them back with Chill Wind, and resume the casting. There is literally no situation I can't handle with him.

I will agree with the above sentiment that it takes some finesse to play a druid, but also as said above, this holds true for any controller. You have to know when to drop out of melee and beast form (or when it's prudent to enter it in the first place). You have to come up with creative uses for your at-wills. I've played striker in Beast form, I've played controller in caster form, heck, I've "tanked" with my druid in caster form by using Grasping Tide to lock down a big baddie when everyone but me and Sorcerer were unconscious.

When you're careful with the Druid, your flexibility makes you absolutely invaluable.

 

[Aulirophile]

Wild Shape, played by RAW, is a trap. Druids are the worst controllers and I am including the very poorly supported Psion.

 

[circadianwolf]

What do you mean by a "trap"?

Druids are definitely the worst controllers, but that is because, as Stumblewyk discusses, they emphasize their secondary roles much more highly, and a more effective characters because of it.

The psion is effective mainly through at-will spamming, though, so I'd still rather play a druid myself.

 

[Shin Okada]

Well, I guess I am starting to understand why those 3 druids were sub-per.

All of the parties I saw druids in action were at-least 4-men parties. One of it were even 7-men party. When all the roles are filled, specialists tend to shine more comparing to PCs with versatility.

But still, I wonder if druids are good at their secondary role. Predator druid does not seem to have better striking power (DPR) even comparing to defenders. And I am not sure if other druids are particularly Leader-like.

 

[Aulirophile]

What do you mean by a "trap"?

Druids are definitely the worst controllers, but that is because, as Stumblewyk discusses, they emphasize their secondary roles much more highly, and a more effective characters because of it.

The psion is effective mainly through at-will spamming, though, so I'd still rather play a druid myself.

I mean "trap." Guardian Druids don't have the HP or the Defenses to make secondary defenders, because nearly all of the things you can do to boost defenses don't work in Beast Form. Shields, Hafted Defense, Rhythm Blade, etc., the only thing that works is Hide Armor Spec. So you're a low hp, low defense secondary Defender with a poor Mark punishment. And of all the people I've seen play Druids, almost none of them respected the Beast Form restriction, which might explain why anyone thinks they're good.

Remember: you can't use any utility powers without the Beast Form keyword, either, it isn't just attacks. And the best utility powers, for the most part, don't have the Beast Form keyword. So just stay in caster form all the time? Doesn't work, the best attack powers (and the best controller powers) have the Beast Form keyword, particularly among the encounter powers. The dailies are about 50/50. But if you're meleeing in Beast Form, that shift out isn't always enough to get away to use a Ranged caster power,

Swarm Druid? Poor riders, and that resist is completely insufficient after the HAE nerf, particularly with MM3 monsters. The rounds to die calculator just laughs at Swarm Druids at this point.

Predator Druids aren't God awful, but their control is still sub-par, and their striking, even thoroughly optimized, barely does 2/3 of a normal striker's damage, and in order to pull it off they give up basically all control and have to expose themselves to getting punched in the face.

Short: If you want to control the battlefield, play a Wizard or Invoker. If you want to be a Defender who does damage or completely locks down a section of the fight, play a Fighter. If you want versatility, play a Paladin|Warlock, Swordmage|Wizard, or hell, play a Fighter.

There is no one thing the Druid that does that other classes do not do extraordinarily better and they are, on average, so poor that picking a class who is baseline really good at one thing and that specializing in another direction will result in a character very good at both those things at the same time. Druids can be good at one thing at a time (literally, if they're in Beast Form they completely lose being good at whatever their Caster Form is doing and vice versa), and not that good at it, because Beast Form is a trap.

 

[LuckyAdrastus]

I played a level 8 druid in a one-off and it worked very well. Standard elven predator druid, no fancy tricks. Savage Rend, Grasping Tide, and Swarm of Locusts gave me lots of options with at-wills (slides, prone, and combat advantage, two AOE's). I also got a lot out of the encounter powers (shifts, dazes, pushes, AC de-buffs). With Agile Form feat, and Pouncing Beast Hide Armor, I could shift 1 or 2 squares every time I used wild-shape, on top of a speed of 8. So lots and lots of maneuverability.

We had one fight outside that split into two mini-fights about 10 squares apart. Every round I was able to contribute to both fights -- throw a ranged attack at one fight, minor action into beast form (shift 2), and move 8 to set up flanking for an ally in the other fight.

I'd strongly recommend toughness as your 1st feat, so you can more easily take a hit or two while near enemies. But remember, you defenses don't change any between beast and human form, so don't fear being in human form near enemies. With the feats/armor I mentioned, changing form always shifts you one or two squares, so I did it basically every turn I could.

Here is my build (at level 9). Nothing fancy, just CharOpped with advice from the Druid Handbook at the Wizard's Forum:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Irena Moresta Se, level 9
Elf, Druid
Build: Predator Druid
Primal Aspect: Primal Predator
Background: Elf - Wild Elf (Acrobatics class skill)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 12, Dex 20, Int 10, Wis 20, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8.


AC: 24 Fort: 17 Reflex: 22 Will: 22
HP: 69 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 17

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +16, Perception +16, Athletics +9, Acrobatics +13

FEATS
Druid: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Toughness
Level 2: Implement Expertise (Staff)
Level 4: Improved Initiative
Level 6: Superior Implement Training (Accurate staff)
Level 8: Agile Form

POWERS
Druid at-will 1: Savage Rend
Druid at-will 1: Grasping Tide (Druid)
Druid at-will 1: Swarming Locusts
Druid encounter 1: Thorn Spray
Druid daily 1: Summon Giant Toad
Druid utility 2: Warding Wind
Druid encounter 3: Predator's Flurry
Druid daily 5: Vine Serpents
Druid utility 6: Black Harbinger
Druid encounter 7: Blood-Spray Bite
Druid daily 9: Summon Great Eagle

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Pouncing Beast Hide Armor +2, Accurate staff of Ruin +2, Badge of the Berserker +2

 

[Bungo_Underhill]

Druids are pretty good at forced movement or movement denial effects and can have great mobilty themselves (especially if your an elven predator).

Whilst they're not as good as dishing out conditions as some other controllers they excel at getting where thet need to be, or putting the enemy there.

With a horned helmet and some clawed gloves the druid can charge into and out of flanking positions and deal impressive single target damage.

Dropping summoned beasts with instinctive attacks onto the battlefeild also distracts monsters attentions, restricts their movement options and sets up more flanking opportunities for the party.

With a minor (or free) action shift the druid can also get out of dodge more easily than many other controllers.

A druid also has better options against enemy artillery and controllers than other controllers. Getting into a fire fight isn't really a great tactic against these monsters, but provoking a melee basic attack from a frail guy with a staff isn't to scary for most archers, a bear on the otherhand...

 

[MrMyth]

I've seen several predator druids in action, and they are reasonably effective at being sub-strikers. They have excellent mobility, certainly.

What I haven't seen in action is a Druid that actually focuses on the strength of the class - adaptability. I think the Druid's ability to go where it is needed and have the right tool for the moment is what it was designed around. Too many seem to want to focus on one aspect above all else - and, as mentioned, there is always some other class that does that one aspect better.

Instead, I think trying to focus on versatility and adaptability would be the key to a strong druid.