Tips to create and play an effective druid?

[Stumblewyk]

What I haven't seen in action is a Druid that actually focuses on the strength of the class - adaptability. I think the Druid's ability to go where it is needed and have the right tool for the moment is what it was designed around. Too many seem to want to focus on one aspect above all else - and, as mentioned, there is always some other class that does that one aspect better.

That's why the druid I'm playing (that I described above) proves to be so useful in my party - he's got a tool or two to apply in any given situation. I can move guys around, I can lock down casters, I can make hindering terrain, I can provide additional melee support, you-name-it.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Well, one of the things that druids have over most other classes is the fun of roleplaying two different forms. Now I know for many people they look at things from a straight numbers perspective and thus claim the druid stinks, which is fine for them... but I know the times I've player a druid, being able to shapechange into other forms as part of actually roleplaying has been a boon and a lot of fun. Time to intimidate somebody? Shapechange into a crocodile to do so, and sometimes the DM might give me a small bonus for it. Or change into a dire bat at night, and sometimes be given a small boon because of it. (And before anyone says that technically these things shouldn't happen because you aren't 'supposed' to get the animal's special abilities when you wild shape... this is where a good DM, creative thinking and the essence of Pg. 42 comes into play.)

And I'll also be honest... being able to have both my druid miniature on the game board, plus a whole host of animal miniatures in my possession so that I can swap my figure out back and forth during fights as I Wild Shape is also a lot of fun. Using the wolf or hyena through much of a fight, then all of a sudden dropping the dire bear miniature onto the table when I break out a Daily gives myself and the rest of the players a little bit of a thrill.

It might not mean much for the purely mechanically-based numbers players... but for someone like me who enjoys the rp aspects both in and out of combat... druids are great.

 

[circadianwolf]

I mean "trap." Guardian Druids don't have the HP or the Defenses to make secondary defenders, because nearly all of the things you can do to boost defenses don't work in Beast Form. Shields, Hafted Defense, Rhythm Blade, etc., the only thing that works is Hide Armor Spec. So you're a low hp, low defense secondary Defender with a poor Mark punishment. And of all the people I've seen play Druids, almost none of them respected the Beast Form restriction, which might explain why anyone thinks they're good.

Remember: you can't use any utility powers without the Beast Form keyword, either, it isn't just attacks. And the best utility powers, for the most part, don't have the Beast Form keyword. So just stay in caster form all the time? Doesn't work, the best attack powers (and the best controller powers) have the Beast Form keyword, particularly among the encounter powers. The dailies are about 50/50. But if you're meleeing in Beast Form, that shift out isn't always enough to get away to use a Ranged caster power,

Swarm Druid? Poor riders, and that resist is completely insufficient after the HAE nerf, particularly with MM3 monsters. The rounds to die calculator just laughs at Swarm Druids at this point.

Predator Druids aren't God awful, but their control is still sub-par, and their striking, even thoroughly optimized, barely does 2/3 of a normal striker's damage, and in order to pull it off they give up basically all control and have to expose themselves to getting punched in the face.

Short: If you want to control the battlefield, play a Wizard or Invoker. If you want to be a Defender who does damage or completely locks down a section of the fight, play a Fighter. If you want versatility, play a Paladin|Warlock, Swordmage|Wizard, or hell, play a Fighter.

There is no one thing the Druid that does that other classes do not do extraordinarily better and they are, on average, so poor that picking a class who is baseline really good at one thing and that specializing in another direction will result in a character very good at both those things at the same time. Druids can be good at one thing at a time (literally, if they're in Beast Form they completely lose being good at whatever their Caster Form is doing and vice versa), and not that good at it, because Beast Form is a trap.

Alright, I see where you're coming from, and agree with most of it. "Trap" still seems an odd word choice to me (I think it's pretty clear what you're giving up), but yeah, an optimized druid will not compete with other optimized characters. (I play a paladin|warlock myself, haha. Played a swarm druid back before HAE got nerfed. Good point that MM3 damage increase makes swarms even worse.)

As DEFCON points out, the fun of a druid is mostly in milking wildshape for as much hilarious out-of-combat RP stuff you can pull off. Combat competence is secondary to that. (Which is why I find it tempting to grab a druid multiclass--and get wildshape at-will--on any character that isn't otherwise MCing and has a spare feat.)

 

[Infiniti2000]

The best "druid" might be a hybrid cleric/beast master ranger.

 

[KidSnide]

I played a level 11 predator druid for a session and found the character comparably effective to the other characters in the group. The key I found is that you have to play a flexible character differently from a specialist.

With a specialist character (like a archer-ranger or a main-line defender), the key is to apply your strength as effectively as possible. Generalist characters (including most mixed-role hybrids) are harder to play because the don't have the same type of niche. Instead you have to identify the enemy's weakness focus there. You'll never be as effective as a specialist in that specialist's wheelhouse, but you can contribute just as much to the party by applying your (more limited) power where it hurts the enemy the most.

-KS

 

[KarinsDad]

I can only comment on the Swarm Druid in our group.

She's been in the group from levels 14 through 18.

She's extremely versatile, but she doesn't do a lot of damage. She does some with a Horned Helm and Clawed Gloves, but not a lot.

She multi-classed Ranger and took Horizon Walker as her Paragon Path, so she has darkvision and the highest healing surge value in the party.

Without even taking Improved Initiative or Danger Sense, she has the highest init in the party. Being elven, she has the highest speed and Elven Accuracy has worked out well since she only has two area effect powers between At Wills and Encounters, so many single target powers. Instead of multi-foe control, she has focused more on helping the party than harming the enemies. For example, combat advantage from Swarming Locust, stunning a single foe with Thunder Crash, making an ally invisible with Camouflage Cloak, teleporting with Fey Strider, and getting out of trouble with Feywild Sojourn.

She has an insanely high Perception, so with that and her high init, she often is in the front of the group where she can detect danger early, drop her single Encounter area effect on some foes, and then act like a skirmisher for the rest of the encounter.

Her high healing surge value has made up somewhat for her average defenses. The Cleric has Cloak of Courage, so although the Druid sometimes gets in trouble, she starts out each encounter with a lot of temporary hit points and she gets healed like a Defender. And she has a few mini-striker-like combos like charging, or dropping Fire Hawk on an Artillery or Controller.

All in all, a definitely playable PC. I don't know if she would have been less capable at heroic levels since she didn't play that PC then.

 

[AllNamesRTaken]

Hello,

I could add my experience of playing a predator druid, serpent paragon path, multiclass assassin, dps speced with claw gloves, horned helmet, rushing cleats for add to push, and some totem that adds damage when pushing, sliding or proneing, up to lvl 18. I am by all means not maxed out as i have focused heavily on perception and movement.

My at-will maxes out (with CA, charge and one assassins shroud) at:
1d8+7d6+1d10+17 + a 3 square slide
and the lowest it gets is:
1d8+4d6+14 + a 3 square slide

I also have lots of encounters and dailies that force move or prone and many that gets my full 4d6 dammage add from push and poison. Most fun push is probably blood sprayed bite that pushes eveyone I am not attacking halfway across the battle map or that lvl 1 or 3 encounter that lets me attack 2 targets and givethe full dammage of the normal at-will bit one extra square of push. Another awesome encounter is one that lets me do at-wills at everyone adjacent that attacks someone on the following round, since that means i toss people around and do crazy dammage at the same time. Add to this a passive perception of 37, decent stealth, a normal sped of 9 and a maxed out speed of 16 without running, and a feat that lets me do the same nice at-will at everyone charging me as an opertunity action and I have a blast playing her.

At lvl 21 if I choose to I can exchange 2squares of push for at-will incorperal and phaseing when I run.

My plan isnt to single spec max out something but createa bad ass hunter and king of the foodchain kind of druid and sofar I like it.

 

[Victim]

Hello,

I could add my experience of playing a predator druid, serpent paragon path, multiclass assassin, dps speced with claw gloves, horned helmet, rushing cleats for add to push, and some totem that adds damage when pushing, sliding or proneing, up to lvl 18. I am by all means not maxed out as i have focused heavily on perception and movement.

My at-will maxes out (with CA, charge and one assassins shroud) at:
1d8+7d6+1d10+17 + a 3 square slide
and the lowest it gets is:
1d8+4d6+14 + a 3 square slide

I also have lots of encounters and dailies that force move or prone and many that gets my full 4d6 dammage add from push and poison. Most fun push is probably blood sprayed bite that pushes eveyone I am not attacking halfway across the battle map or that lvl 1 or 3 encounter that lets me attack 2 targets and givethe full dammage of the normal at-will bit one extra square of push. Another awesome encounter is one that lets me do at-wills at everyone adjacent that attacks someone on the following round, since that means i toss people around and do crazy dammage at the same time. Add to this a passive perception of 37, decent stealth, a normal sped of 9 and a maxed out speed of 16 without running, and a feat that lets me do the same nice at-will at everyone charging me as an opertunity action and I have a blast playing her.

At lvl 21 if I choose to I can exchange 2squares of push for at-will incorperal and phaseing when I run.

My plan isnt to single spec max out something but createa bad ass hunter and king of the foodchain kind of druid and sofar I like it.

Wow, you can Push or prone enemies and are good at charging!

Wait, that's falls more into the barbarian's area of expertise than a controller's.

 

[Gradine]

Man, remember when the Druid first came out and everyone was all "Now this is how a controller is supposed to look like! Unlike that dumb Wizard. Stupid, stupid Wizard..."

And also, remember when people played Druids because they wanted to play a character that was a druid (as opposed to an optimal controller)?

As has been pointed out many times so far, 4e Druids trade optimization for versatility. Whether that's worth it or not (mechanically) depends on the party's makeup and the way the DM designs encounters. The better the DM is as at designing interesting and diverse encounters, the more worthwhile the druid becomes. I don't really play or read modules, so I have no clue how they stack up there.

Thing is, controllers are the most nebulous role there is. Trading optimization for versatility would get any leader, defender or especially striker laughed out of the game. Parties tend to work just fine without controllers, however, which means for any party that picks up a Druid, versatility balances well with optimization.

 

[pathfinderq1]

I will echo what several posters have said about the usefulness of flexibility. I'm currently running an elven predator druid in a new game- we're one session into 2nd level. While I had originally planned to be a full-time beast form melee/charge character, I'm in a party of melee-types, so I have adapted.

I'm currently our point-man/scout (MC ranger for Stealth), with high Perception, Initiative, and ridiculous mobility. With elven longbow proficiency and Chill wind, I provide most of our ranged attack and minion sweeping. I'm also currently our only ritual caster, and our back-up healer (the only one with Heal trained for an auto- Second Wind). The speed/mobility advantage has saved us from at least one TPK, and while I don't out-damage our melee killers, the minion-sweep at range has been very useful (and, with every one else up close, I can stay back- I've only been directly damaged twice so far). The added advantage of having several NPCs think our Warlord has a well-trained pet dog is just gravy- dogs overhear all kinds of things.