To balance high level mages.

[Derren]

To me it seems that high level mages are superior to every other PC Core class so that they mostly don´t need other classes because they have spells which can solve this problems where they would normally need others. My main concern is that in high levels mages become nearly invulnerable against non-mages. To prevent this I want to restrict some spells which I think are "too powerful". But please tell me what you think of my changes and if I have overlooked something (for good or bad)

- Time stop: Time stop is a spell nearly every mage gets. Mage duels are only initiative contests because the mage who casts time stop first wins to 90% and non mages have nearly no chance. Also I don´t think it makes fun for the rest of the party when the mages casts time stop and then destroys the enemy all by himself, or that they can´t do anything against enemies with time stop. My solution: remove from game

- Teleport/Planeshift: My problem here is that mages with Teleport and Planeshift can instantly disengage from combat and reprepare their spells to come back while other classes have harder times to escape. My Solution: Change the casting time for Teleport (w/o error) and Planeshift to 1 minute.

Wall of Force: My only problem here is the hemisphere. It can trap enemies without a chance for escape and with no saving throw. I find this is to much for one spell because Wall of Force is a very good spell even without the hemisphere. For trapping enemies there are other (more specialized) spells. My solution: Remove the hemisphere option

 

[Crothian]

In T&B there is a 3 level prestige class that focuses on Teleport. I have made it so only this Prestige class gains access to the Teleport spells.

 

[Jack Daniel]

Hmmm... high level mages mean still-below-average HP and fortitude... which means that fighters and rogues with poisoned weapons who get the drop on the mage can still kill him dead... nope, I still don't see a problem with epic wizards.

 

[Derren]

I haven´t said that you can´t kill high level mages, but it is hard and you only get 1 try or the mage flees or gains the upper hand. But it doesn't take much to kill a high level fighter (only a prepared mage) I think with my modification I made the wizard a bit more balanced with other classes without taking away much strength.

 

[mikebr99]

The 20th level fighter out of the DMG. attacking the 20th level mage in the DMG. is going to average 111.630* damage per full round of combat with +7 power attack.

The 20th level mage is at -35.63 hps after the first round... And you want to make it harder for the mage to get away from this?

*numbers from Spikeyfreak's 'Melee_Combat_Calculator_v22'... Thanks Spikeyfreak... (spikeyfreak@email.com)

 

[reapersaurus]

nope, I still don't see a problem with epic wizards.

you CAN'T be serious.

 

[Numion]

I'm not really concerned about mages. They still can't kill a cleric with protective magics on, but they are themselves more prone to .. well dying than clerics.

I'm a bit concerned about non-spellcasters vs. spellcasters at higher levels, but mages really aren't the issue.

For example, mages don't have simple Death Ward. Their only protection against a clerics Destruction is Spell Turning (and in part Protection From Spells), which can be burned out by casting two destructions in a row while hasted.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm always eager to learn new tactics!

 

[LostSoul]

The 20th level fighter out of the DMG. attacking the 20th level mage in the DMG. is going to average 111.630* damage per full round of combat with +7 power attack.

Contingency, man.

 

[Limper]

How are high level mages to powerful? In 2e they were but in 3e they had their teeth pulled.

It sound like your problem isn't with the mages (or spells) but with YOUR strategies for dealing with them... all three "problems" you've sited can be nixed by a held action and dispel magic... and there are MANY other ways to work it as well, just think like the players would.

 

[Xeriar]

I'm not really concerned about mages. They still can't kill a cleric with protective magics on, but they are themselves more prone to .. well dying than clerics.

I'm a bit concerned about non-spellcasters vs. spellcasters at higher levels, but mages really aren't the issue.

For example, mages don't have simple Death Ward. Their only protection against a clerics Destruction is Spell Turning (and in part Protection From Spells), which can be burned out by casting two destructions in a row while hasted.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm always eager to learn new tactics!

Limited Wish can cast a triple-length Death Ward. If no friendly cleric is handy, it can be a necessity...

Also, many campaigns reduce the power of Death and Ressurection spells, so a 'Contingency: Heal (cast via Limited Wish)' becomes a viable option to a failed save.