TSR TSR3.5 Launches IndieGogo Campaign to "Stop" WotC

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those claims are).

The IndieGoGo campaign was launched yesterday and has so far raised $675 (at the time of writing).

The action TSR seeks is a "Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership" which is a court declaration about the status of something in dispute.

TSR has launched a campaign to stop Wizards of the Coast

Become a Champion of TSR and Support TSR’s campaign against Wizards of the Coast!

TSR is taking a stand against Wizards of the Coast (“WOTC”) and its wrongful bullying of TSR, our trademarks, and its public libeling and slander of all those who helped create TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and products.

Wizards of the Coast has continually bullied TSR regarding TSR’s legally owned Trademarks. Wizards of the Coast has refused to answer all of TSR's repeated requests that they show any proof of their claims. Wizards of the Coast has the vast resources behind them and is implying to bring them to bear down on TSR.

The new TSR suffered widespread pushback when it launched, which they blamed on WotC, claiming that they were under a "coordinated assault across various channels being mounted.... by [WotC]" The company announced itself earlier this year, having acquired the TSR trademark after the previous holder accidentally let it lapse. It was run by Ernie Gygax, Justin LaNasa, and Stephen Dinehart. After several weeks of controversy, the company split into two -- Wonderfilled (Stephen Dinehart), and TSR (Ernie Gygax and Justin LaNasa).

TSR - TSR3 Blames Widespread Pushback On WotC

In an unexpected turn of events, the primary individuals behind TSR3 have claimed the pushback they've received on social media and elsewhere was orchestrated by .... D&D publisher Wizards of the Coast (a company which has thus far remained completely silent on recent events). TSR3 is run by...

www.enworld.org

The page also indicates an intention to "fight to have WotC's legacy product disclaimer removed" from older products (that's the disclaimer on the older books available on DMs Guild which indicates that those books are products of their time) by claiming that the disclaimer portrays the creators of those older products as "as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products".

TSR will also Fight to Have the WOTC Legacy Disclaimer Removed

TSR is suing WOTC for Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership . TSR will also pursue in the near future having WOTC remove the legacy content disclaimer placed on TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and other products, and retractions of any other libel and slander which alleges that racism and other heinous beliefs are incorporated into those products.

This disclaimer attempts to make a statement of fact argument, and therefore paints all of the writers, editors, artists and consumers of those products as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products. This statement by Wizards of the Coast opens the possibility for the producers and players of these "Legacy Products" to face ridicule, and face the labeling as "bigots", "racists", "misogynists", and worse Cyber & Physical Attacks!

Wizards of the Coast legacy content disclaimer.

"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end".

TSR3's Justin LaNasa spoke about the campaign in a YouTube video.

TSR - Companies & Freelancers Distance Themselves From The New TSR

The new TSR (which I refer to as TSR3 to avoid confusion) has doubled down on its stance--which has been widely condemned online--via an ongoing series of tweets and replies from its TSR Games, Giantlands, and Dungeon Hobby Museum social media accounts (possibly operated by Justin LaNasa) in an...

www.enworld.org

 

[Vaalingrade]

I'm confused about the continued anger over the inclusion of the legacy product disclaimer acknowledging them as products of their time.

The great majority of people had opinions/beliefs at times that coincided with general cultural/societal beliefs that are no longer in style, and in some cases are now known to be wrong. As long as we're willing to understand that we can have once held those beliefs, but no longer do and are working to be better, it doesn't mean you're a terrible person. These disclaimers are not calling any of these authors terrible people, but some are taking it as saying such.

Give it a decade or two, we'll likely realize other things that are "products of their time" now that we'll have grown past.

The disclaimer is the most reasonable and unintrusive way to acknowledge that and keeping the original work complete and unaltered.

Basically, people internalize the media they consume to the point it becomes part of their identity.

So to them, admitting some part of that media was not so good is to admit that part of them is not so good. And that can't be because they're perfect and never said, did or thought anything wrong ever.

Then they call you a slur to make it clear they are men of couth, taste and moral standing.

 

[Mannahnin]

I'm confused about the continued anger over the inclusion of the legacy product disclaimer acknowledging them as products of their time.

The great majority of people had opinions/beliefs at times that coincided with general cultural/societal beliefs that are no longer in style, and in some cases are now known to be wrong. As long as we're willing to understand that we can have once held those beliefs, but no longer do and are working to be better, it doesn't mean you're a terrible person. These disclaimers are not calling any of these authors terrible people, but some are taking it as saying such.

Give it a decade or two, we'll likely realize other things that are "products of their time" now that we'll have grown past.

The disclaimer is the most reasonable and unintrusive way to acknowledge that and keeping the original work complete and unaltered.

You know that, and I know that, but...

Honestly, I don't think they're hateful people. I think they're dumb, entitled, arrogant people. Afraid of progress and of being left behind and forgotten by a world in which they feel entitled to be in charge.

Quoting myself from a few months ago:

But would you make such a person your business partner?

If I was a credulous and optimistic soul, accustomed to thinking the best of people, susceptible to flattery and perhaps with a lifelong feeling of not having lived up to my potential, and vague entitlement to "my father's legacy"? And that person buttered me up and offered to bankroll a company in which I would be a leader and be paid thousands of dollars to run games for adoring fans, in a literal museum to the glory days of my father's company and my most cherished childhood memories?

I'd be surprised if I would pay any attention whatsoever to what Twitter accounts my new friend and benefactor followed, and I'd have pretty strong incentives to turn a blind eye to such "trifling details" about people I might never have heard of, like Varg.

Similarly, such a person might resent any intimation that his father or any of his father's trusted employees ever set a foot wrong in their writing. "Certainly, even if they had, they were good people with no malicious intent! And WotC and the kids today are wrongheaded and impertinent to think they can judge the work of such titans!"

 

[darjr]

It’s one thing to think the WotC comment is wrong. It’s another to hate it so much you’d pledge to these morons to sue to have it removed.

 

[Sacrosanct]

You know that, and I know that, but...

Honestly, I don't think they're hateful people. I think they're dumb, entitled, arrogant people. Afraid of progress and of being left behind and forgotten by a world in which they feel entitled to be in charge.

Quoting myself from a few months ago:





Similarly, such a person might resent any intimation that his father or any of his father's trusted employees ever set a foot wrong in their writing. "Certainly, even if they had, they were good people with no malicious intent! And WotC and the kids today are wrongheaded and impertinent to think they can judge the work of such titans!"

I don't think it's that complicated. I think they've shown, over and over, that they want to look at nekkid boobies, objectify women, and play "adult' D&D without any of those pesky minorities getting any camera time. Comments like the below are the typical response one gets when you actually ask them. Note, it's not the rules they look back on fondly (for me and a lot of others it is, but then we don't get caught up with fighting the progress either). It's the aesthetics of back then they want to enjoy without being called out on it.

Entitled is right.

 

[BookTenTiger]

This is now making it obvious that the real reason they're doing all this is just to make $$$ without having to actually produce anything!

 

[Umbran]

From Michael. @TSR-Hobbies What is your response to some of these comments here, specifically around the merits of a lawsuit like this, the transparency about how funds would be use (even if the campaign fails since Indiegogo still delivers money), and the obvious conflicting statements from one paragraph to the other

Oh, come on, it isn't like their spokeperson is going to have any response beyond "this is totally legitimate".

 

[Bolares]

I don't think it's that complicated. I think they've shown, over and over, that they want to look at nekkid boobies, objectify women, and play "adult' D&D without any of those pesky minorities getting any camera time. Comments like the below are the typical response one gets when you actually ask them. Note, it's not the rules they look back on fondly (for me and a lot of others it is, but then we don't get caught up with fighting the progress either). It's the aesthetics of back then they want to enjoy without being called out on it.

Entitled is right.

View attachment 147991

Oh good, the "high school prom" argument.... D&D SHOULD BE ONLY WHAT I LIKE ALL THE TIME!!!!

 

[Bolares]

Oh, come on, it isn't like their spokeperson is going to have any response beyond "this is totally legitimate".

Sometimes we forget Michael was just a meme, and the real one is just another TSR dude.

 

[Umbran]

That's the impression I got from his statements earlier this year and the general actions TSR has been taking.

I wouldn't count on Ernie having any real input on the "general actions". While I don't know either of them, the whole thing strikes me as to likely be LaNasa driving, with Ernie as a figurehead to drag out when there's need to look like a "legitimate heir" to the original TSR. Ernie might be considered complicit, but his role may speak more to economic hopes than any personally held beliefs.

 

[Bolares]

I wouldn't count on Ernie having any real input on the "general actions". While I don't know either of them, the whole thing strikes me as to likely be LaNasa driving, with Ernie as a figurehead to drag out when there's need to look like a "legitimate heir" to the original TSR. Ernie might be considered complicit, but his role may speak more to economic hopes than any personally held beliefs.

Well... the more he chooses to stay in business with LaNasa, and let LaNasa speak for the company, the easier I think it is to assume Ernie agrees and stands behind everything TSR does.