D&D 5E Tweak Instant Cure spells to fix whack-a-mole

[Caliban]

This whole problem seems odd to me. In the groups I play with, we try to avoid "whack-a-mole" and start healing people when they hit half hit points (the point at which they are taking visible damage according to the rules).

If you think there are no consequences to "whack-a-mole" healing then you are being to lenient as a DM. Start taking attacks on downed PC's to inflict auto-fails on death saves and they'll see it as something to avoid at all costs.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

There's no lasting mechanical consequence to dropping below 0. That's what causes whack-a-mole mentality.

That and the fact that it takes a dedicated healer spending a lot of spell slots and actions to heal fast enough to keep up with incoming damage, while healing from 0 to consciousness only takes a bonus action and a 1st level slot, much easier and available even to groups without a life cleric.

Your solution only removes one of these factors, not the other, so some groups will choose to work around it anyway.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

There's no lasting mechanical consequence to dropping below 0. That's what causes whack-a-mole mentality.

It's not a mentality that is universally adopted, so the evidence suggests its something other than the one constant - what the game rules in the book say - causing differing results.

 

[hejtmane]

I have a lot of things I do not get in this post that I read; the way 5e is design the whack mole is the best approach because a cleric trying to keep of with damage by healing in game is a wasted resource because of the damage output in 5E. Avoiding damage as much as you can is the better option and a lot of classes have ways to help mitigate damage or heal them selves to take the burden off the cleric, druid bard etc etc resources.

Next if I did the non whack a mole all my players would be dead because why make monster dumb that is the issue here I play monsters like they would most likely act if there are a bunch of people they use aoe. Attacks and this whole MMO Tank mind set is laughable if the wizard strikes first at a big monster that is dumb he is going to latch on to that wizard because while he hurt me so the only way the monster is coming off is if someone hits harder or has something like goading attack. If they are a pack of goblins they use tactics.

Pretty much from what i seen of 5e in game play whack a mole is the most efficient use of healing resources

 

[Yunru]

It's not a mentality that is universally adopted, so the evidence suggests its something other than the one constant - what the game rules in the book say - causing differing results.

Ignoring that a problem has multiple causes does nothing to help solve the problem, only hinder it. A lack of consequences and an ease of healing at 0 leads to the mentality. Solving the latter requires more effort than making the former dangerous enough that players don't want the risk it just for easier healing.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Ignoring that a problem has multiple causes does nothing to help solve the problem, only hinder it.

I'm not ignoring that a problem has multiple causes - I'm encouraging folks to find what are actually the causes, rather than things that just aren't obstacles, so they can treat that cause, rather than just patch the symptoms.

A lack of consequences and an ease of healing at 0 leads to the mentality.

Again, that's not true - many groups do not have the mentality and have changed neither the consequences or the ease of healing.

 

[bedir than]

A simpler way to get rid of whack-a-mole is to slap any down-and-up PC with a level of exhaustion.

 

[Yunru]

I'm not ignoring that a problem has multiple causes - I'm encouraging folks to find what are actually the causes, rather than things that just aren't obstacles, so they can treat that cause, rather than just patch the symptoms.

Again, that's not true - many groups do not have the mentality and have changed neither the consequences or the ease of healing.

That some do not is irrelevant. That some do is the problem. You are trying to use natural differences in playstyle due to people being different to argue a clear cause is not a clear cause.

You might as well try to argue that a broken option, say 3e's Punpun, isn't broken because some people (as in this case, the majority) wouldn't play him.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

That some do not is irrelevant. That some do is the problem. You are trying to use natural differences in playstyle due to people being different to argue a clear cause is not a clear cause.

If the problem is caused by what you say it is caused by, there would be no "some do not". That's why it is relevant that some do not - because that is evidence that you've confused a non-obstacle (an enabler, if you prefer) as being the cause.

I'm trying to use just the littlest bit of a scientific approach to help you find, and thus potentially solve, the cause of a problem - and you are insisting on ignoring me and solving the symptoms. Which I will now get out of your way and allow you to go right on doing.

 

[Prakriti]

There's another solution:

Unconsciousness causes exhaustion. If you get knocked down three times in one fight, you now have 3 levels of exhaustion.