D&D 5E Unearthed Arcana: Gothic Lineages & New Race/Culture Distinction

The latest Unearthed Arcana contains the Dhampir, Reborn, and Hexblood races. The Dhampir is a half-vampire; the Hexblood is a character which has made a pact with a hag; and the Reborn is somebody brought back to life. https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/gothic-lineages Perhaps the bigger news is this declaration on how race is to be handled in future D&D books as it joins...

The latest Unearthed Arcana contains the Dhampir, Reborn, and Hexblood races. The Dhampir is a half-vampire; the Hexblood is a character which has made a pact with a hag; and the Reborn is somebody brought back to life.

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Perhaps the bigger news is this declaration on how race is to be handled in future D&D books as it joins other games by stating that:

"...the race options in this article and in future D&D books lack the Ability Score Increase trait, the Language trait, the Alignment trait, and any other trait that is purely cultural. Racial traits henceforth reflect only the physical or magical realities of being a player character who’s a member of a particular lineage. Such traits include things like darkvision, a breath weapon (as in the dragonborn), or innate magical ability (as in the forest gnome). Such traits don’t include cultural characteristics, like language or training with a weapon or a tool, and the traits also don’t include an alignment suggestion, since alignment is a choice for each individual, not a characteristic shared by a lineage."
 

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JEB

Legend
You're very much misunderstand what I wrote, which is: the quick builds you think exist for the races actually don't exist. Picking a Dex-based race only narrows down the options from 12 or 13 to 5 or 6 Dex-based classes and leaves 6 or 7 "rebel" builds, and doesn't even come close to addressing the archetype issue. As an example, Dexterity isn't important for warlocks but can be important for Bladelocks. Charisma isn't normally important for rogues, but is important for Swashbucklers.

So when you say "Some people are happy with being a "typical" halfling or elf or orc, and don't want to have to think about it. Having default ASIs gives them what they want and saves them the trouble of pondering the matter" you're ignoring that there really is no typical halfling or elf or orc class combo.
Except there is a "quick build" for existing races already - it's the fixed ASIs they provided for every character race from the PHB forward. (Plus the adjustments for NPCs in the DMG.) So your assertion that they don't exist is rather confusing to me. They just won't be the default going forward.

Why shouldn't Wizards provide "quick build" ASIs on future race options, for those that want them? It has no downsides for those that use floating ASIs, and it's helpful to certain types of players.
 

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I think you know as well as I do that it's ridiculous to compare wings to an abstract stat bonus. You're pulling out really stupid strawmen here.

For starters, all races (with only a tiny handful of exceptions) get a +2/+1. Therefore, switching where that +2/+1 goes does nothing to affect balance. Only what, the aarakocra and maybe one other, get flight? And if you look at their stats, you see they have very few other useful traits. Thus, adding wings to a dwarf really upsets the balance unless you take a lot of other stuff away.

There are many ways to justify a high-Strength halfling without resorting to divine blessings. There are basically no ways to justify a dwarf born with wings without completely rewriting the dwarf.
No, I seriously don't think it is a ridiculous comparison at all and to me it is weird that you do. To me the bonuses represent innate differences in aptitude between the species due their differing physiology, it's the exact same thing than aarakocra having the flight speed and the dwarves not. Aarakocra is better flyer than a dwarf for the same reason than a hawk is a better flyer than a wolf, and a half-orcs tend to be stronger than halflings for the same reason wolves tend to be stronger than foxes. Your 'but PCs are super special' logic can just as easily applied to swapping any other features be they tied to species or the classes, so to me it is bizarre that in this splat based game you choose to apply it to just to this one specific feature.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
The problem with your whole premise there is that you're acting as if there's only one "rollercoaster", and if "Bob" keeps getting his "rollercoaster" you can't get a turn. But the floating ASI rules, and the fixed ASI rules, can and should both exist, so that both of you get what you want. What's the value in not supporting both?

To be honest, it almost sounds like you're suggesting it was wrong that "Bob" ever got things his way, and now it's time for some payback. I really hope you're not seeing things that way...

No, I don't see things that way. And, like I said, hope both sides get supported.

But if both don't? If Bob's coaster is phased out... didn't he have a good run? Am I supposed to feel guilty that the game designers chose to go a different direction? It sure would be nice if the people who liked Vancian Spellcasting got their preferred system, isn't it? Be nice if people who like "Elf is a class" got their preferred system, wouldn't it? But I don't feel bad that the game has decided to move away from those design decisions and into different territory.

And feeling bad, the guilt tripping? That's what it feels like you are trying to do by wondering if I feel it was wrong for Bob to have his preferred system. That I am viewing this as some sort of payback. It isn't malicious at all, it is just that the game used to work one way, it has over a hundred options that still work that way, and it was announced that they were going to try a new way. It isn't about revenge, it is about shifting design. We don't build gothic houses anymore. Or bell bottom jeans. Things change.

So just to be clear, because modrons don't fit your argument about how Wizards wouldn't need to create significantly different character races from this point forward, you're just dismissing them as unlikely to happen? That's rather convenient, don't you think?

No, the problem with Modrons is that unless they are insane the basic unit is built to do a single task infinitely. And endless loop of "stack cans of tomato soup" with no end and no break unless someone tries to stop them from stacking cans. You need to get into Tridrones or Quadrones to have the types of capability to have enough functions to serve as an adventurer.

They are hyper alien minds, in a strict hierarchy that is almost never broken, to the point where they won't even communicate more than a single level up or down in their hierarchy. It makes them incredibly hard to roleplay. They also lose their only unique ability, Axiomatic Mind, when they go Rogue, leaving behind only truesight and flight. And they disintegrate when killed, making them impossible to resurrect.

All of the mechanical and roleplay challenges combined with the fact that they don't fit the lineages in an easy way make me think they are not going to have a playable version. Same with Slaadi, Devas, Balgura and Spiked Devils. They are just a bit too far out of the norm to try in 5e.

As for the rest of your points, you may be of the opinion that Wizards doesn't need to create writeups when they could just create mild variants... but history has shown they will, up through the Wildemount and Theros books last year, and there's also a marketing incentive for them to create actual stats for races like kender and draconians. It seems inevitable that we will see more character races.

That is an interesting one to bring up. Theros had six races, of those six races humans, minotaurs, Centaurs, and Tritons were repeats. They didn't get a new mechanical write-up, they were copy pasted. The Anvilwrought background also gave us a race on constructs as a background option instead of a racial write up.

That leaves Satyrs and Leonin. And satyrs were something that we definitely didn't have before. Leonin...

I could easily see them having been made Tabaxi instead of a separate cat race. There are just enough changes that it would have been just a bit much to make them a variant, but I can see the design that would have made them interchangeable. Flip Feline Agility for Intimidating Roar, offer different skills and that is the majority of the differences other than the ASIs.

And looking at Wildemount we have dwarves, elves, halflings, humans, aarcrockra, aasimar, dragonborn, firbolg, Genasi, Goblinoids, Gnomes, Goliath, Half-Elves, Kenku, Orcs, Half-Orcs, Tabaxi, Tortles, Tieflings, Hollow Ones

With Dwarves, most elves, most halflings, aarcrockra, Aasimar, gnomes, firbolg, Genasi, Goblinoids, Goliaths, Half-Elves, Kenku, Orcs, Half-Orcs Tortles, Tabaxi, Tielfings and humans nothing changes. They are reprints of the old material

Pallid elves are... basically wood elves with a different set of traits. That doesn't even count as designing a new race I think, just adding a subrace.

Same idea with Lotusden Halflings.

Dragonborn are exactly what I've been saying though. A Variant. "A draconblood/Ravenite uses the dragonborn traits in the Player’s Handbook, with the following traits replacing the Ability Score Increase and Damage Resistance traits." That is just a variant of them. Not a new write-up of a new race.

Then Hollow Ones are kind of like the Reborn, they are a "supernatural gift" not an individual race.


So really, if you look at the Ravenites and say "That is a new write up, that proves they should still be able to do write ups", then there is no debate, because I look at that and say "Here is a variant version of the race, presented as a variant option" it isn't a newly designed racial write-up to me, just some variant features that could be given to any dragonborn.

And, they could present such a variant with something like "If you want to play a traditional kender, choose a lightfoot halfling and replace these traits with these other traits." and we are done. You can still include all the lore, but the mechanics are just variant abilities.
 


I don't have the problem with the idea that for some fantastic reason a 3ft tall halfling is as strong as the strongest Goliath, but I would prefer to know how, and for that 'how' to be in itself meaningful in some way.

After all , this is the kind of thing that the game generally treats seperately from ability scores. I don't raise my Strength to 21 and say it's because I have a Belt of Hill Giant Strength, I find a Belt of Hill Giant Strength and that raises my Strength to 21.

I mean this seems important. If your halfling is super strong because he has a pact with a demon, or he's the Chosen of the god of Strength or something like that this is generally the sort of thing the game treats differently.

This is the thing. We are drifting away from a simulation inspired ruleset to a view of the rules that is more narrative inclined, yet using the same rules approach. Halfling with +2 Strength has got to be the least interesting way to model or represent a uniquely strong halfling.

13th Age has a good system for this sort of thing - the One Unique Thing. If your One Unique thing is "I am the strongest Halfling that has ever lived" then that's that. You can then flesh it out through discussion. "Why are you the strongest halfling that has ever lived?".
 
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Chaosmancer

Legend
Except there is a "quick build" for existing races already - it's the fixed ASIs they provided for every character race from the PHB forward. (Plus the adjustments for NPCs in the DMG.) So your assertion that they don't exist is rather confusing to me. They just won't be the default going forward.

Why shouldn't Wizards provide "quick build" ASIs on future race options, for those that want them? It has no downsides for those that use floating ASIs, and it's helpful to certain types of players.

I think the issue you are missing with what @Faolyn is saying is that after you "quick build" a race to have dex, then what?

You are playing a halfling with 16 Dex, what do pick next?

Rogues need dex
Ranged fighters need dex
Rangers need dex
Monks need dex
Bladelocks need Dex
Bards need Dex

And in fact, while 16 dex, 16 con might from a Stout Halfling can fit all of those (because everyone needs Con), 16 Dex 16 Cha is from a Lightfoot is equally valid of Rogue, Warlock, Bard, or Sorcerer. So, you have four equally viable "perfect fits" for the race right there.

Take a race like Orc with strength and Con. That is useful for Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Bladelock or Ranger. So, you've narrowed the number of "ideal" classes, sure, but you haven't eliminated the choice, because you still have to decide what to pick.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
No, I seriously don't think it is a ridiculous comparison at all and to me it is weird that you do. To me the bonuses represent innate differences in aptitude between the species due their differing physiology, it's the exact same thing than aarakocra having the flight speed and the dwarves not. Aarakocra is better flyer than a dwarf for the same reason than a hawk is a better flyer than a wolf, and a half-orcs tend to be stronger than halflings for the same reason wolves tend to be stronger than foxes. Your 'but PCs are super special' logic can just as easily applied to swapping any other features be they tied to species or the classes, so to me it is bizarre that in this splat based game you choose to apply it to just to this one specific feature.

So why are basic humans as wise as Wood elves and as intelligent as High Elves? While at the same time being as tough as Half-orcs and as charming as halflings? As strong as Firbolgs and as Dexterous as Bugbears?

In fact, why are Goblins as Tough as Goliaths?
Why are Lizardfolk as Wise as Kenku?
Why are Tabaxi as Charming as Drow?

This is all physiological and make perfect sense? As much sense as a Wolf being stronger than a fox?
 

JEB

Legend
No, I don't see things that way. And, like I said, hope both sides get supported.
Glad to hear it!

No, the problem with Modrons is that unless they are insane the basic unit is built to do a single task infinitely. And endless loop of "stack cans of tomato soup" with no end and no break unless someone tries to stop them from stacking cans. You need to get into Tridrones or Quadrones to have the types of capability to have enough functions to serve as an adventurer.

They are hyper alien minds, in a strict hierarchy that is almost never broken, to the point where they won't even communicate more than a single level up or down in their hierarchy. It makes them incredibly hard to roleplay. They also lose their only unique ability, Axiomatic Mind, when they go Rogue, leaving behind only truesight and flight. And they disintegrate when killed, making them impossible to resurrect.

All of the mechanical and roleplay challenges combined with the fact that they don't fit the lineages in an easy way make me think they are not going to have a playable version. Same with Slaadi, Devas, Balgura and Spiked Devils. They are just a bit too far out of the norm to try in 5e.
Except they did, in fact, have rogue modrons as a playable race in 2E. If they could make it work in 2E, surely they can make it work in 5E.

That is an interesting one to bring up. Theros had six races, of those six races humans, minotaurs, Centaurs, and Tritons were repeats. They didn't get a new mechanical write-up, they were copy pasted.
They also reprinted subclasses in Xanathar's, and again in Tasha's. Do you therefore think they aren't likely to add any more subclasses to the game? Reprints don't really mean much.

That leaves Satyrs and Leonin. And satyrs were something that we definitely didn't have before. Leonin...

I could easily see them having been made Tabaxi instead of a separate cat race. There are just enough changes that it would have been just a bit much to make them a variant, but I can see the design that would have made them interchangeable. Flip Feline Agility for Intimidating Roar, offer different skills and that is the majority of the differences other than the ASIs.
This reinforces my point. They could have made leonin a variant tabaxi. But they didn't. Why? Because they figured fans of the Theros setting (or folks generally) might want to play a leonin, and not a variant tabaxi. Why would they do any differently for kender or draconians?

So really, if you look at the Ravenites and say "That is a new write up, that proves they should still be able to do write ups", then there is no debate, because I look at that and say "Here is a variant version of the race, presented as a variant option" it isn't a newly designed racial write-up to me, just some variant features that could be given to any dragonborn.

And, they could present such a variant with something like "If you want to play a traditional kender, choose a lightfoot halfling and replace these traits with these other traits." and we are done. You can still include all the lore, but the mechanics are just variant abilities.
Dude, you found a single example of what you're proposing will be the norm, in a sea of examples that prove Wizards can and will continue to create full-fledged races and subraces even when they could do variants...
I think the issue you are missing with what @Faolyn is saying is that after you "quick build" a race to have dex, then what?
Then, for many players, you pick your class - possibly also using the quick build - and you're ready to play. Some folks just want to game.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
No, I seriously don't think it is a ridiculous comparison at all and to me it is weird that you do.
I don't see how you don't realize it's ridiculous. For one, you're switching around something for a thing of equal value. It's as game breaking as letting a wood elf be proficient in spears and slings instead of bows and swords. For the other, you're adding a completely new ability.

And letting dwarfs fly is an ability that nobody is talking about adding. Your whataboutisms have no actual purpose here other than to be obnoxious.
 

I don't see how you don't realize it's ridiculous. For one, you're switching around something for a thing of equal value. It's as game breaking as letting a wood elf be proficient in spears and slings instead of bows and swords. For the other, you're adding a completely new ability.

And letting dwarfs fly is an ability that nobody is talking about adding. Your whataboutisms have no actual purpose here other than to be obnoxious.
You can swap the flight for one of their racial features. And yes, no one is talking about doing that, but the logic you espouse supports that just as well.
 

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