Hiya.
I'm...disappointed? I'm a
bit of a killer DM, I'll admit, but hearing my players be actually
excited-and-terrified-at-the-same-time about the potential of death when dealing with a trap... and then the pure joy and sense of accomplishment when they come up with some ingenious way to defeat some death-trap by using
Cone of Cold, a full waterskin, a 6.5' piece of rope, two pickled hearings and a half-used candle? Priceless! But when they 'know' that a trap, and failing saves/rolls will result in nothing but HP loss? Well, the looks on their faces are more along the line of annoyance (as in
"Oh, great...ANOTHER trap to drain our resources...*sigh*..." ). In other words, traps become speed-bumps on the road to success...not dead ends.
That said, I can see new players and DM's that like to have "D&D Lite" style campaigns, two thumbs up.
The part about specifically dividing a trap into categories, with ranges for each, and then listing potential countermeasures... I can see that really helping new DM's as well as those wanting a more 'faux-death' type of campaign. But for old Grognard Curmudgeon Killer-DM's like me ...I'll have to give these a pass.
PS: Not trying to offend anyone here...just saying me and my group like our games the way like we like our contests against Sicilians.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
I completely see your point [MENTION=45197]pming[/MENTION], and I agree with you on the simple traps being speed bumps.
But what about the complex traps, if anything, doesn't work for your style? I think those are more than a resource drain, much like placing a mummy in a temple is more than a resource drain.
Genuinely curious, since to my eye those complex traps are made for more killer/narrative DMs
But in my game if you tell me you are going to disable a trap and can't even understand the mechanism to do so is in a different place from where it apparently is set to be sprung, then the attempt will simply fail. Perceiving the way the trap works is a separate dice roll that would precede the roll to disable it. Maybe it is even part of what is discerned from the same dice roll that detected the trap. If you are the DM, you decide.
I think this in part comes down to table expectations and DM information-giving, like you said.
At quite few of the tables I've been at, it is "There is a Trap there" followed by "I disarm it". The DM doesn't give any details about the nature of the trap and the player isn't expected to ask.
Even if more information is given, some players will only hear "This statue spits fire out over this area when you walk in front of it" and then the player will say "I disarm that trap" not expecting to be asked how they are going to do so. The DM didn't tell them if it was a pressure plate, a laser tripwire, or simply magic so they don't know how to proceed. And the trap is simply slowing down the game, even if the rogue wants to spend 5 minutes talking out the intricacies of the trap, the other players may start to get bored and want you to hurry it along, this trap (in general) is not important to the story, and they want to get to content that is.
Not saying you don't give enough info or that your players would get bored with the rogue showing off, but just illustrating that certain expectations come with certain tables.
This is incredibly insightful, and would be useful in any DMG. The fact that perception should not tell you it's a trap. Perception tells you "it's a hole in the ground" or "it's a hole with a canvas covering it" or "there is a thing metal wire running across the hall" or "there are holes in the walls, about finger size". Investigation tells you that it's a trap, in some cases. The pit is obviously something to be avoided, but the holes in the walls? Who knows what hose are for, and they are not stopping progress. Paranoid and smart adventurers will investigate those. That's when they discover the subtle glint of metal inside as they shine their torch in, or the slight discoloration of the stone from the remnants of poison gas.
I also very much like the presssure plate idea in the previous comment. That is some good drama there. Put a perception check on noticing the click (very low, of course, like D.C. 10) then the actual encounter begins - how to get him off.
I think most groups, upon hearing there is a series of finger sized holes in the hallway, would immediately know it is a trap, and most likely a trap that shoots arrows/bolts/darts ect.
In fact, to me, if I was told the stone inside the holes was discolored... I wouldn't know what to make of that. Could be poison, could be a low-grade acid (depends on the type of stone), could be fire, could be necrotic energy, or actually any sort of magic, could be burrows for creatures.
How do you stop it? Well.... that depends. Trap it probably has a pressure plate. I'm either going to spot it or not, once I do I should be able to just not step on it. Or perhaps we spend 10 minutes stuffing rags into the holes. Which as soon as we step on the pressure plate and unleash the highly destructive hellfire is going to do squat.
The line is a very fine one I think, and definitely changes from group to group, about how useful any given information is. Once my players think there is a trap in the area, everyone except one of the rogues backs off 15 ft, then the rogue starts trying to disarm or figure out how to avoid the trap. And they will do nothing else until they have an answer that satisfies them because they know this is a trap, and they know there is an answer that will make it safe.
I will however third that the pressure plate mine scenario is a brilliant one that could potentially be very exciting.
