log in or register to remove this ad

 

D&D 5E Unearthed Arcana: Travelers of the Multiverse

New free content from WotC - the latest 4-page Unearthed Arcana introduces six new races: astral elf, autognome, giff, hadozee, plasmoid, and thri-kreen.


Screen Shot 2021-10-08 at 10.45.04 PM.png


Looks like Spelljammer and/or Planescape is back on the menu!
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey

Chaosmancer

Legend
Which sentence of mine ever claimed a plane doesn't have A portal?

The one where you went bold and screamy against the idea of taking a portal from one setting to sigil then another portal from sigil to another setting. You are probably, with this question, trying to indicate that OF COURSE, you can do that, but you won't be specifically where you want to be in that setting.

But, ya know what's funny? Traveling through the sky of a setting is multiple times safer than traveling between spheres (far fewer monsters) and since Spelljamming technology is so easily avaiable, they can hop in their flying ship to go from Sarlona to Khorvaire. Which STILL doesn't have them using the Spelljammer to travel between spheres.

No it isn't. It has a lot of portals. Maybe even thousands. There are infinite numbers of prime planes and the outer planes are infinite in size.

Nowhere remotely close to infinite. And I have the 2e Planescape books. Nobody has a good count(countless!), but it's only in the thousands. many of which people don't know about or how to activate.

My gosh! Multiple portals to an infinite plane. That will be sure to get me exactly where I want to go! Except the odds are good that even if I can find the correct portal, and few know where they all go, I won't be able to use it. Simply saying that they exist isn't the same as people knowing about them and/or how to activate them.

And none of this making up problems really makes it any easier to fly between realities, where you must contend with far far more dangerous situations.

I would also say that "thousands" is not "countless". Thousands indicates that they have counted. Sigil has Modrons, they are immortal, tireless and can count in the trillions if that is their purpose. So, I'm going to have to say that "countless" when dealing with immortals means "basically infinite". Maybe not actually infinite, maybe there are dead realities that no one can find a portal to... but if there are no portals to them, then is anyone even looking to go there? How would they know about that reality to try and go there in a ship? Which direction do they fly for how long?

I mean, let's be fair and balanced here. If a crystal sphere is 2,000 years away by Spelljammer ship, no one is going there anyways. Even if they know about it, there is no point.

How is a portal to the sun more dangerous than flying to a planet?

The portal doesn't open into a sun. That's how.

:sigh: What makes you think these portals are permanent? Many, if not most of sigils portals are temporary, showing up god knows where(people) generally don't, and with triggers that people have no idea about. People often go missing because they accidentally trigger a portal that no one knew about and then goes away.

See, words like "Many" or "Most" indicate not all. So, why do I think that some portals are permenant when we are told that some portals aren't permanent? Because in a binary state like that, both things end up being true.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Chaosmancer

Legend
Still, as far as I now, Sigil's portals aren't big enough to move large amount of shipments through constantly. And even if they did, wouldn't one faction try to monopolize that portal, and apply a bunch of taxes and stuff through it? And block shipments of products they don't like, or send them only to factions they're allied with?

I mean, most of the portals on Sigil are meant for individuals passing through, and small-business merchants. But it's not like Sigil is a particularly safe mode of transportation either, with the factions there constantly fighting for control.

I personally would view Sigil portals like air travel; faster, but you aren't going to be able to move mass quantities of product very easily. Possibly more expensive too, considering that the portals may be controlled by factions who enforce rules/tarriffs. Spelljamming is like container shipping; takes longer, but you get more control of your shipments size, timing, and security.

Oh the factions would ABSOLUTELY start controlling the portals, and I think there would be quite of bit of financial intrigue going on.

But, then again, some of the stuff I've heard from Spelljammer, you could leave with a shipment and then disappear for a century because you got caught in a time storm or something. And if the Factions are willing to attack a caravan in Sigil, they'd be more than willing to hire privateers to patrol the area near the ports too.

It isn't that Sigil is completely without risk and adventure, it is that it is far far more predictable and just normal business compared to the absolute Chaos I've heard the Spelljamming space to be.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
Apart from the (we don't talk about) New Adventures of He-Man, He-Man remained pretty much bound to Eternia, though later with more crossover with Etheria, once that became a thing. It also seems a lot more science fantasy than Spelljammer too. Arcana of the Ancients by Monte Cook Games probably does a better job of moving D&D towards a more He-Man style game than Spelljammer does.

I was just responding to Parmandur who said it involved He-Man. I know that there was the stuff with Eternia, but I've never seen the show so I couldn't tell you how much space travel they did.
 

Bolares

Hero
So, I got busy and couldn't keep up with the thread... How did it become an argument over wich is the worse of the two settings? Both are similar in scope, but can coexist...
 


I think the thing to notice is all the lineages featured are either Spelljammer, or Dark Sun/Spelljammer. None of them are characteristically Planescape. There are no more varied tiefling linages, no updated genasi, aasimar, gith, rogue modron, nathri etc.

So, either Planescape is folded into Spelljammer, or there is no Planescape book coming.
I'm thinking we'll get a generalized multiverse book, which will likely have a lot of stuff about Sigil - and unless a Planescape gets an adventure path, I suspect that's all we'll see from Planescape for the next few years.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
The one where you went bold and screamy against the idea of taking a portal from one setting to sigil then another portal from sigil to another setting.
Nawp! Never said or implied that. Stop putting your words into my mouth.
And none of this making up problems really makes it any easier to fly between realities, where you must contend with far far more dangerous situations.
Hordes of demons and devils are much safer than encountering another ship. Got it.
I would also say that "thousands" is not "countless". Thousands indicates that they have counted. Sigil has Modrons, they are immortal, tireless and can count in the trillions if that is their purpose.
I've already explained this. You are wrong.
So, I'm going to have to say that "countless" when dealing with immortals means "basically infinite".
And you are wrong here as well. I'm going to go with what is written, and that's that there aren't more than a few thousand portals, most of which nobody can find or even knows are there.
I mean, let's be fair and balanced here. If a crystal sphere is 2,000 years away by Spelljammer ship, no one is going there anyways. Even if they know about it, there is no point.
Don't be so short sighted. I think a spelljamming adventure with a generation ship from such a sphere would be awesome. Or hell, that's a fantastic intro for a new campaign where the characters are from the most recent generation of such a ship. All you have to do is use your imagination a bit.
 


Azzy

KMF DM
HOWEVER, the original design intent of Spelljammer WAS to take the ship from places like Oerth to Faerun. Which is what we are saying you likely won't do, because it is dangerous and takes longer, so the intent of Spelljamming would have to change if you combine the two into a coherent package.
I don't believe that was the original intent at all. The original intent was D&D in Spaaaaace! as a standalone setting. The connection to various settings seems more like an excuse to take existing characters into Spaaaaace! than to be some sort of transative device. Of course, because of that connection, travel between settings is also a possibility.
 

Still, as far as I now, Sigil's portals aren't big enough to move large amount of shipments through constantly. And even if they did, wouldn't one faction try to monopolize that portal, and apply a bunch of taxes and stuff through it? And block shipments of products they don't like, or send them only to factions they're allied with?

I mean, most of the portals on Sigil are meant for individuals passing through, and small-business merchants. But it's not like Sigil is a particularly safe mode of transportation either, with the factions there constantly fighting for control.

I personally would view Sigil portals like air travel; faster, but you aren't going to be able to move mass quantities of product very easily. Possibly more expensive too, considering that the portals may be controlled by factions who enforce rules/tarriffs. Spelljamming is like container shipping; takes longer, but you get more control of your shipments size, timing, and security.
Most large-scale trade on the Outer Planes goes through the gate towns on the Outlands anyway. Stable (as long as people there don't start strongly believing in something!), and large enough for trading.
 

I'm thinking we'll get a generalized multiverse book, which will likely have a lot of stuff about Sigil - and unless a Planescape gets an adventure path, I suspect that's all we'll see from Planescape for the next few years.
Since we're seeing something of a Multiverse theme for 2022 stuff so far, I'm leaning a bit toward Spelljammer and Planescape being our two classic settings next year, one in the spring and one in the autumn.
 

Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
Oh the factions would ABSOLUTELY start controlling the portals, and I think there would be quite of bit of financial intrigue going on.

But, then again, some of the stuff I've heard from Spelljammer, you could leave with a shipment and then disappear for a century because you got caught in a time storm or something. And if the Factions are willing to attack a caravan in Sigil, they'd be more than willing to hire privateers to patrol the area near the ports too.

It isn't that Sigil is completely without risk and adventure, it is that it is far far more predictable and just normal business compared to the absolute Chaos I've heard the Spelljamming space to be.

So I actually am curious as to how to reconcile this, so did a bit of digging on Sigil and its portals here; Sigil - 1d4chan

It looks like the majority of portals require specific keys or are only temporary (sometimes both), meaning they can't be relied upon for free trade on a large scale. It also looks like most permanent portals are directly controlled by factions, who use them for specific purposes (ie not trade). For example, the Doomguard has four permanent portals to the Negative Energy plane in the armory, but they use that specifically to connect Sigil to their strongholds there.

My takeaways from this are that if I am a merchant, traveling through Sigil is very unreliable. I probably don't have access to permanent portals, and if I do it's from inside information from factions that are pretty loathe to share secrets. So trade is possible through Sigil, but only on a small-business scale of merchants tracking down temporary portals to maintain business.

If I'm a bigger trader who relies on larger scale, I can't build a business around this. Although trading via Spelljammer has its own risks, it is risk I can plan around. There are stable routes through the Phlogiston which are always traversable. There are raiders and pirates, but this I can plan around by hiring mercenaries, adventurers and the like.

Spelljammer has a lot of chaos, but there are permanent stable routes from world-to-world as well. So travel via Spelljammer is definitely possible, and can co-habit a world with Sigil and its infinite doors.
 

Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
Most large-scale trade on the Outer Planes goes through the gate towns on the Outlands anyway. Stable (as long as people there don't start strongly believing in something!), and large enough for trading.

Yep. But that isn't trade between worlds on the Material Plane, which is Spelljammer's wheelhouse. So I think the two travel systems can both function, as their largely for different things.
 


Superchunk77

Adventurer
Since we're seeing something of a Multiverse theme for 2022 stuff so far, I'm leaning a bit toward Spelljammer and Planescape being our two classic settings next year, one in the spring and one in the autumn.
Spelljammer seems to be all but confirmed, but I think the other setting for 2022 will be Dark Sun. I'm thinking Spelljammer will be Spring/Summer to align with this UA and the Multiverse book release, and Dark Sun will likely be later 2022 after we get another psionics UA in the next few months.

I'm anticipating more psionic feats and subclasses in the next UA, maybe the Mul race, but I doubt we will see a Psion/Mystic core class again.
 

I remember a meme about Pokemon being designed as a videogame for children, but practically played by adults, and Call of Duty created for adults but played by children. Dark Sun is perfect for the young adult audence, but not too grimm if teenages are present in the tabletop. We can bet Dark Sun will return some time, but we can't safe when. It is not only the rules about defiler magic and psionic powers, or the spirit of the setting, but also the right tribal-punk look as potential hook.

About Spelljammer we should wonder about the possible cultural, technologic and economic impact with the trade between the different crystal spheres. In the second edition the orcs oficially weren't wellcome in the Krynnsphere. Or let's imagine a psionic mystic arrives to Ansalon and the order of the seekers are refunded studing the psionic arts. Or the kenders travelling to Greyhawk to explore. Here I imagine Nentir Vale like a middle point in the trade between worlds, allowing new races and classes arriving to other places.

Spelljammer is the ultimate "sandbox", with lot of unknown zones to be discovered and explored by the PCs. And lots of creatures and factions from Planescape could be reused in Spelljammer.

* Maybe planar tears are created accidentally by fault of some high-tech alien civilitation with faster-than-light spaceships (fraals, for example).
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
So, I got busy and couldn't keep up with the thread... How did it become an argument over wich is the worse of the two settings? Both are similar in scope, but can coexist...
That's what is weird: of course bothvan coexist, because they are specifically not similar in scope. It's like saying the Underdatk exploration if Out if the Abyss is in some sort of competition with the seafaring rules from Ghoats of Saltmarsh because they are similar in scope...like, no, on both counts.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I think the thing to notice is all the lineages featured are either Spelljammer, or Dark Sun/Spelljammer. None of them are characteristically Planescape. There are no more varied tiefling linages, no updated genasi, aasimar, gith, rogue modron, nathri etc.

So, either Planescape is folded into Spelljammer, or there is no Planescape book coming.
I think both are on WotC to do list as seperate products, but apparently Spelljammer is first.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I'm thinking we'll get a generalized multiverse book, which will likely have a lot of stuff about Sigil - and unless a Planescape gets an adventure path, I suspect that's all we'll see from Planescape for the next few years.
I see no reason to suspect this: I forsee a specifically Spelljammer product, and a specifically Planescape product, that have as much to do with each other as Ravenloft and Strixhaven: both are D&D, and you could mix them.
 

Bolares

Hero
That's what is weird: of course bothvan coexist, because they are specifically not similar in scope. It's like saying the Underdatk exploration if Out if the Abyss is in some sort of competition with the seafaring rules from Ghoats of Saltmarsh because they are similar in scope...like, no, on both counts.
I'm not trying to say they are the same. I just don't get why people are trying to argue wich is worse and shouldn't be published....
 

Visit Our Sponsor

Latest threads

Level Up!

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top