D&D 5E Volo's 5e vs Tasha's 5e where do you see 5e heading?

[Oofta]

I think it's extremely telling that you chose three, which would only take us to May 2024. I'll take you on five, because I think with three you could naughty word your way out of it if 6E came out in say June 2024, not May 2024. And any new PHB with any new/different rules beyond the changes made in the errata must count (I will allow future errata, if there are any, of course, but they need to actually go in the official errata document), none of the "I see no ships" bollocks because there aren't "enough" rules changes that I full expect to see from certain people (not you though actually) when it happens. I say five because I could easily see WotC feeling they have to delay 6E because their digital offering wasn't yet up to scratch in 2024 even though that is likely to be the intended year.

How much were you thinking?

LOL. Sure by the end of 2026, we will not see a new version of any of the core 3 books with significant changes. A new splat book with optional rules doesn't count. I'll bet $100 USD.

If there's disagreement on what is "enough" we'll set up a poll.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

LOL. Sure by the end of 2026, we will not see a new version of any of the core 3 books with significant changes. A new splat book with optional rules doesn't count. I'll bet $100 USD.

If there's disagreement on what is "enough" we'll set up a poll.

I can't work with "significant", that's exactly the kind of uncertainty that ruins bets and turns them into disagreeable grudges, nor polls that depend on who is still using ENworld in five years lol. I gave my conditions. You asked for the duel, I select the weapons and location. To whit:

And any new PHB with any new/different rules beyond the changes made in the errata must count (I will allow future errata, if there are any, of course, but they need to actually go in the official errata document), none of the "I see no ships" bollocks because there aren't "enough" rules changes that I full expect to see from certain people (not you though actually) when it happens.

The PHB is the only book I care about. They can put out a totally new DMG or MM and I don't think that'll be an "edition change". But the PHB will be. And if they go beyond stuff that's in errata (again, allowing errata that haven't happened yet), that's an edition change pretty much by WotC's own terms, because they've stated that the only rules changes they intend to make are errata, and not many of those. It's fine if you think this bar is too low, but I can't think of another stop for the bar short of them actually calling it an edition change which probably won't happen.

Amount is fine, just hope I'm not fired and broke or something in 2026, god knows.

 

[TheSword]

LOL. Sure by the end of 2026, we will not see a new version of any of the core 3 books with significant changes. A new splat book with optional rules doesn't count. I'll bet $100 USD.

If there's disagreement on what is "enough" we'll set up a poll.

A twelve year long edition would be a bloody good run in RPG world. Who would of thunk it. I couldn’t say myself whether we’d be done with 5e by then. I certainly wouldn’t bet cash on getting new edition in 5 more years.

 

[Hatmatter]

Actually it really does. 5e is entering the d20 equivalent phase with new forks on the way out. Back in the d20 age wotc was the one building the rule set alongside the content they made while d20 publishers mostly just refluffed and maybe added some feats/spells/PrC options. Wotc is not the one doing the innovation this time and actually seem to be in a phase where they are copying new mechanics rather than creating new mechanics.

Howdy Tetra.

As I mentioned pages ago and as Marandahir stated quite well, this criticism is based on evaluating D&D 5th edition based on development and deployment of rules. At the launch of 5th edition, the designers made it clear that going forward they were interested in having the game develop through storylines and when they want to add or revise a rule, they will, but there is no particular schedule for that.

It is fine for one to say that someone or some organization is letting one down because their values do not match one’s own values. However, to judge the organization and its books on a broader (less personal) level such as you seem to be doing by using criteria that Wizards itself is not using for D&D is not fair to them.

What you are doing is perfectly understandable. I have played and loved D&D for a long time and back in 2nd edition created an entire binder of homebrewed rules. I know that the mechanics-heavy approach has always been an element of the game and has been the first love of many gamers. Further, it became dominant as part of Wizard’s design philosophy for the game with 3rd and 4th edition.

However, Mike Mearls (as D&D Next was becoming 5th edition) and others at Wizards for years have made it clear that this is no longer the dominant design philosophy behind the D&D books. Others have said that in this thread in different ways.

So, where you are identifying innovation in the above quote and the analogy that you are drawing with 3rd edition, while understandable along the “past is prologue” line of thinking that we can all relate to, is not fair to how D&D has been designed and evaluated by Wizards for the last seven years.

Cheers and keep rolling! So nice to have a sustained conversation where everyone has been so civil and intelligent and thoughtful. That being said, I am starting to feel like I am repeating myself so I may be bowing out soon (also I have a lot of work to do).

 

[Hussar]

The other part that folks are forgetting here is where the growth has come from.

For the first time ever, DnD is appealing across gender lines. A very large segment of growth has come from people that have never gamed before.

Which makes predictions based on the past very suspect. Who knows what the buying habits of a new gamer are? It hasn’t been long enough for trends to really form.

The magic eight ball says the future is cloudy.

 

[Hatmatter]

So again ... people complain we didn't get a modular system. They start publishing some alternative rules many of which are campaign world specific and that "proves" 6E is just around the corner.

Tell you what. Since you "guarantee" that we're going to have a new edition any day now, care to make a bet? It can't be open ended because nothing lasts forever. I just think it's ludicrous to think that there's going to be anything other than additional supplements and optional rules in the short term.

I don't think we'll see a new edition or major revision of the core rule books in the next 3 years. Anybody want to take me up on the wager?

I want in on some of that sweet green in this bet and, if is not clear, I am on Oofta's side.

This was my posting way back on the top of page three of this thread (posting #40), which I wrote to put myself on the record using specific years.

I am surprised at how many people think this is the case. As someone who has been playing for a long, long time, let me assert here that I think the natural development of the game that we saw in Tasha's is absolutely nothing like a 5.5 edition. Further, let me lay out here that I think 5th edition is not heading toward a 6th edition anytime soon. Let me make my prediction less abstract: In 2025, there will be no 6th edition. In 2026, there will be no 6th edition. Let the people of the future visit this thread and verify who was correct. But, I think that the people here who are equating lineage or alignment adjustments with a new edition are quite disconnected from the entire ethos and mindset behind 5th edition.

But, that is just my prediction. We'll see. I think you are all quite creative and I enjoy reading the forums. Let the readers of the future note who was correct.

Cheers!

 

[Oofta]

I can't work with "significant", that's exactly the kind of uncertainty that ruins bets and turns them into disagreeable grudges, nor polls that depend on who is still using ENworld in five years lol. I gave my conditions. You asked for the duel, I select the weapons and location. To whit:

The PHB is the only book I care about. They can put out a totally new DMG or MM and I don't think that'll be an "edition change". But the PHB will be. And if they go beyond stuff that's in errata (again, allowing errata that haven't happened yet), that's an edition change pretty much by WotC's own terms, because they've stated that the only rules changes they intend to make are errata, and not many of those. It's fine if you think this bar is too low, but I can't think of another stop for the bar short of them actually calling it an edition change which probably won't happen.

Amount is fine, just hope I'm not fired and broke or something in 2026, god knows.

Well, that's the problem isn't it? If they change the verbiage on where half-orcs live is that an edition change? Tweak the background of the drow to include the new origins? Add some extra verbiage about what alignment means in a sidebar? I don't think minor "fluff" changes constitutes anything close to a new edition. I don't think the PHB is going to be rewritten to the degree that people will refer to it as a new edition regardless of what it's labeled. That will require rules/crunch changes. I doubt they'll change much of anything; hence a poll.

I definitely don't see a new edition in 2024 for it's anniversary like some people have stated, but I'm willing to stretch it a couple of years. Ten years from now? Odds are better we'll see something.

 

[Parmandur]

Well, that's the problem isn't it? If they change the verbiage on where half-orcs live is that an edition change? Tweak the background of the drow to include the new origins? Add some extra verbiage about what alignment means in a sidebar? I don't think minor "fluff" changes constitutes anything close to a new edition. I don't think the PHB is going to be rewritten to the degree that people will refer to it as a new edition regardless of what it's labeled. That will require rules/crunch changes. I doubt they'll change much of anything; hence a poll.

I definitely don't see a new edition in 2024 for it's anniversary like some people have stated, but I'm willing to stretch it a couple of years. Ten years from now? Odds are better we'll see something.

I think it's very plausible that they do a new take in 2024. Similar to the B/X>BECMI or BECMI>Rules Cyclopedia level of changes, though, more a retracting than a rewriting of the rules and fluff.

 

[Oofta]

I think it's very plausible that they do a new take in 2024. Similar to the B/X>BECMI or BECMI>Rules Cyclopedia level of changes, though, more a retracting than a rewriting of the rules and fluff.

I assume they will do some special stuff in 2024. Time will tell. We're all just making predictions with no real justification after all.

In part when or if we get a new edition it probably depend on how successful multi-marketing is at keeping up the interest, or if they care much about sales of the books after a while. Some of the biggest movie franchises come from comic books that only a tiny percentage of the movie goers will ever touch. If movies are a big hit it could potentially open up other markets and sales could continue to increase.

As Yogi Berra supposedly said "Predicting the future is difficult, especially when it hasn't happened yet."

 

[SkidAce]

Make the bet.

If you are certain of your position, there is nothing to lose.

Wait the time. It should be clear who wins.

If its not clear, then someone reneges. (or you agree to let it go)

The internet shall judge...lol.

(not directed at either of you...but as my father would say...put up or shut up)