D&D 5E Warlock, Pact of the Blade, Melee

[Deltabeoulve]

I dunno.. Agonizing Blast Reads - "When you cast Eldritch Blast, add your Charisma modifier to the damage it deals on a hit." You have to roll an attack die on each ray. If each ray hits, you would then add the Charisma modifier for each one. At least that's how it reads to me.

 

[gyor]

It's not the greatest option for Warlocks, but another multiclass possibility is a level or two in Monk. Unarmored Defense is useless, but with Martial Arts you can use a spear or quarterstaff as your pact weapon (attack 2H for 1d8+Dex) and tack on the unarmed 1d4+Dex as a bonus action. This is slightly better than dual wielding (without the feat or style feature) and usable more often than the War Cleric feature.

A second level of monk gets you ki points to Flurry with, for minor melee damage nova. Patient Defense can also effectively be a pretty nice AC boost.

I think another flavorful but maybe less-than-optimal option if you really want to be a Str-lock is to multiclass Barbarian. Get your spells out of the way in the first two rounds, then rage into melee. A Barb 3/Warlock 5 has shield proficiency and can swing a greatsword three times per round, with bonus damage and advantage on every attack.

Unarmed is a type of weapon, its in the weapon chart, so you can pick it for your pact weapon, which means all your unarmed attacks will do necrotic damage with life drinker.

 

[Dausuul]

I dunno.. Agonizing Blast Reads - "When you cast Eldritch Blast, add your Charisma modifier to the damage it deals on a hit." You have to roll an attack die on each ray. If each ray hits, you would then add the Charisma modifier for each one. At least that's how it reads to me.

Yes, this was my mistake - it's pretty clear now I read the spell text. Eldritch blast shoots separate rays, each one gets its own attack roll, therefore each one hits separately and gets bonus damage.

Unarmed is a type of weapon, its in the weapon chart, so you can pick it for your pact weapon, which means all your unarmed attacks will do necrotic damage with life drinker.

Unarmed strike is listed, for convenience, in the weapon table. That doesn't make it a weapon. It's not necessarily a problem to allow a "pact unarmed," but I certainly wouldn't take it for granted that you'd be allowed to do it.

 

[Diirk]

I think glaive (or other polearms) is the best pact weapon in the long run, due to 2x 1d10 + str + cha mainhand attacks and a 1d4+cha offhand attack. It also gives you an extra hit to trigger Hex damage. At level 5, it should be roughly equal to the greatsword, or about 3 points ahead with hex. You also get extra utility with the attack of opportunity on approach etc.

That being said, you never get more than 2 attacks (3 with offhand bonus), so just cantrip blasting is better in the long run. Melee pact maxes out around 52 damage (using +1 weapon, str/cha both at 5 and average damage rolls... 5.5 / 2.5 main / off, 3.5 for 3x hex), cantrip is 4x 1d10+5+1d6 = 56. You have to wait for level 17 for the cantrip blasting to top out, but it's easier on the attributes.

Both are viable, but there's not really a lot of payoff going for a pact weapon, aside from it being cooler.

 

[Tony Semana]

I think glaive (or other polearms) is the best pact weapon in the long run, due to 2x 1d10 + str + cha mainhand attacks and a 1d4+cha offhand attack. It also gives you an extra hit to trigger Hex damage. At level 5, it should be roughly equal to the greatsword, or about 3 points ahead with hex. You also get extra utility with the attack of opportunity on approach etc.

That being said, you never get more than 2 attacks (3 with offhand bonus), so just cantrip blasting is better in the long run. Melee pact maxes out around 52 damage (using +1 weapon, str/cha both at 5 and average damage rolls... 5.5 / 2.5 main / off, 3.5 for 3x hex), cantrip is 4x 1d10+5+1d6 = 56. You have to wait for level 17 for the cantrip blasting to top out, but it's easier on the attributes.

Both are viable, but there's not really a lot of payoff going for a pact weapon, aside from it being cooler.

I've seen a couple of times the Polearm Master's butt-end attack referred to as off-hand and therefore applying the same drawback of not adding your ability modifier. But nothing in the description refers to this as an offhand attack neither does it state that you do not add the ability modifier. The only similarity is the fact that it uses a bonus action:

When you take the attack action and attack with only a glaive, halberd or quarterstaff, you can use a bonus action to make a melee attack with the opposite end of the weapon. The weapon's damage die for this attack is a d4, and the attack deals bludgeoning damage.

Is there another part of the rules where the penalty is specifically cited? Otherwise then it should be 1d4+STR (and eventually +CHA at Lvl 12)

 

[Diirk]

I've seen a couple of times the Polearm Master's butt-end attack referred to as off-hand and therefore applying the same drawback of not adding your ability modifier. But nothing in the description refers to this as an offhand attack neither does it state that you do not add the ability modifier. The only similarity is the fact that it uses a bonus action:
Is there another part of the rules where the penalty is specifically cited? Otherwise then it should be 1d4+STR (and eventually +CHA at Lvl 12)

No, I think you're right here, I just had vague memories of it granting you a 1d4 damage attack with the offhand, rather than granting you an attack, with 1d4 as the damage die.

Crossbow expert also gives you a bonus attack with +stat to damage, so I think given you're spending a feat on these options its fair.

 

[kerbarian]

Both are viable, but there's not really a lot of payoff going for a pact weapon, aside from it being cooler.

Being able to attack effectively when there are melee enemies surrounding you is quite nice. But having to split your main stat between Str and Cha is a high cost, and I agree that you don't get that much in return.

Plus, you lose out on the other pacts. I haven't figured out any great uses for Pact of the Tome yet, but Pact of the Chain with Voice of the Chain Master offers truly amazing scouting and utility.

 

[bganon]

Unarmed strike is listed, for convenience, in the weapon table. That doesn't make it a weapon. It's not necessarily a problem to allow a "pact unarmed," but I certainly wouldn't take it for granted that you'd be allowed to do it.

I hadn't actually thought of using "unarmed" as a pact weapon for Lifedrinker. But given that a warlock has to give up two levels to get it, and that there's not much other advantage to using "unarmed" as your pact weapon, if this came up at my table I think I'd allow it. Seems kind of cool, flavor-wise, and allows something that might feel a bit like the 4e Vampire class (hopefully without as much sucking). Hmm, refluffed Drow Warlock/Way of Shadow Monk multiclass...

Plus, you lose out on the other pacts. I haven't figured out any great uses for Pact of the Tome yet, but Pact of the Chain with Voice of the Chain Master offers truly amazing scouting and utility.

I don't know if there's a single killer use for the Tome, but 3 extra cantrips and all the rituals you can grab makes for some damn fine utility. I think it's basically a way for the Warlock to be the party Batman if there's no Wizard in the group.

 

[ppaladin123]

Being able to attack effectively when there are melee enemies surrounding you is quite nice. But having to split your main stat between Str and Cha is a high cost, and I agree that you don't get that much in return.

Plus, you lose out on the other pacts. I haven't figured out any great uses for Pact of the Tome yet, but Pact of the Chain with Voice of the Chain Master offers truly amazing scouting and utility.

I think people are searching for the best warrior/mage (gish) options in 5e. The EK is a lot more limited in terms of spells and spell progression than the pact blade warlock or the valor bard so those start to look appealing (fireballs, flight and two attack per round by level 6!). But then the latter two are very limited in terms of armor, weapons and combat abilty compared to the EK. So it is hard to find the sweet spot. The Oath of Vengeance or Oath of the Ancients Paladin is probably the closest to that sweet spot but the are divine and thus more defensive/less flash than an arcane warrior.

 

[gyor]

The Oath of the Ancients has a few blaster spells like ice storm and moonbeam, and few fightering options are more brutal then an Oath of Vengence Paladin with spells like Hunter's Mark, Haste, CD like Oath of Enimity, Paladin Smites.

A dwarven necromancer makes for an interesting possible gish, weilding a war axe, and using the Chill Touch cantrip and the Vampiric Touch Spell.