D&D 5E Warlord - Is 5E SRD/DMsGuild a Solution? Is AL a Problem?

[Jester David]

I'm not talking a compromise so much as being aware of where the sore points are, and either diplomatically phrasing the abilities or having to just plow through and admit it won't please everyone.

I think it's going to be pretty darn impossible to even please half the people...

A rough Warlord designed for home use. Sure that's designed.

A product for publication trying for professional grade layout and art, that takes a little while. DMsGuild is not even at the 4 week mark.

You're assuming that these warlord fans have been sitting around doing nothing for the 18 months that 5e has been out.
I've seen dozens of warlord builds here and on Reddit, but no one has decided to put them onto the DMsGuild. Only a couple people have decided it was worth the effort (and even then, no one has purchased their products).

Plus, getting it out there is the first step in getting it finished. Do the class, mark it PWYW, and identify it as a "playtest" to be revised in response to feedback.

The product from these guys?

http://www.apg-games.com/#!who_we_are/c1enr

http://www.rpgnow.com/browse.php?keywords=Alea+Publishing+Group&x=0&y=0&author=&artist=&pfrom=&pto=

I suppose one could take a week's vacation to crank something out.

Huh, I didn't know that. Likely because the name "Alea Publishing" is nowhere on the product page, nor the cover of the book. There's nothing identifying it as anything but a newcomer unless you're familiar with the name of the publisher.

But there are dozens of copper selling products (like chronomancy or other archetypes). There's lots of demand for many other products but very little for the warlord class and archetype. The bar for a copper seller is not that high.

 

[Z. H. Darkstar]

6.) AL is largely irrelevant now. Every module is available for home play, barring promos and epics. So unless you only pay at cons and gamestores and cannot fathom playing anything but a warlord, you can run everything you want with your warlord class.

Just remember that playing AL modules without following the AL rule set means that your character is not AL-legal.

 

[Jester David]

Just remember that playing AL modules without following the AL rule set means that your character is not AL-legal.

But if you're playing at home, you can use whatever content you want but just apply that credit to a separate AL legal character you use in stores or at conventions.

 

[Z. H. Darkstar]

But if you're playing at home, you can use whatever content you want but just apply that credit to a separate AL legal character you use in stores or at conventions.

No. That's considered cheating. Read the ALPG before spreading misinformation.

 

[Remathilis]

The goal isn't just to get a Warlord version to play at individual tables. The many home-grown versions can meet that need. My preference would be to have one version done right that gets some traction rather than a shotgun blast of mediocre ideas.

The problem is that no one agrees what a "one version done right" is. Nobody in the forum can even agree what mechanics, limits, or even what tropes it wants to emulates. Some want an expanded battle-master, some want a powers/class equal to spellcasting, some want them to grant everything from extra actions to granting spell slots to healing allies back from death, others want bonus actions, auras, and temp hp/DR.

There is only two solutions: a dedicated group of gamers get together over the net and design a class in hopes being the One Warlord to Command Them All, or a bunch of different ones comes out and the pro-warlord community rallies around the best option. Either way, there will be splinter-groups who prefer their own brew/pet build instead. (This is proving true of Rangers, who have an official WotC build, as well).

You're assuming that these warlord fans have been sitting around doing nothing for the 18 months that 5e has been out.
I've seen dozens of warlord builds here and on Reddit, but no one has decided to put them onto the DMsGuild. Only a couple people have decided it was worth the effort (and even then, no one has purchased their products).

This is my point. People are sitting around waiting for WotC to cater to their niche, but so far all that WotC has to go on is a couple of low-selling DMsG products and a few people complaining on social media and messageboards. There has been more interest in Al-Qadim rules than of a Warlord class as of right now, and considering right now WotC is probably convinced they covered said niche via BM/PDK, its going to take a lot more squeak to get them to take notice.

No. That's considered cheating. Read the ALPG before spreading misinformation.

What he's saying is have two PCs; one that is AL legal (ie not a warlord) that you play in tournaments, con's, and publically, and then play your warlord in a home game that is not reported. Obviously, your warlord is separate and doesn't count towards your AL play, but you can play many of same adventures with either character; you just don't get to report the Warlord's play.

 

[Jester David]

No. That's considered cheating. Read the ALPG before spreading misinformation.

Totally.
But whenever Organized Play crosses over with home play you shift to an honour system regarding cheating. Enforcement is in no way possible and you cannot stop infractions.

But you're stilling playing the module. You're participating in the program. So that's miles above the guy who gave his cat, dog, goldfish, and teddy-bear a DCI number and has been "playing" through adventures with them.

It's cheating. I have no illusions that it's not. But it's cheating that doesn't hurt anyone, and if you really, really, really want to play that warlord in an AL module rather than regular home game... well, no one can stop you.

What he's saying is have two PCs; one that is AL legal (ie not a warlord) that you play in tournaments, con's, and publically, and then play your warlord in a home game that is not reported. Obviously, your warlord is separate and doesn't count towards your AL play, but you can play many of same adventures with either character; you just don't get to report the Warlord's play.

No, I was saying you can cheat.
I was not advocating cheating, nor encouraging it, but simply stating that if playing a warlord in an AL game is necessary for your happiness it's not the end of the world if you buy the adventures and play them at home with a homebrew class.

The module writer gets paid, the homebrew class designer gets paid and playtest feedback, WotC gets more people playing their game. It's wins across the board.

 

[Remathilis]

No, I was saying you can cheat.

Well then! Consider my pearls clutched, dear sirrah!

 

[jodyjohnson]

The problem is that no one agrees what a "one version done right" is. Nobody in the forum can even agree what mechanics, limits, or even what tropes it wants to emulates. Some want an expanded battle-master, some want a powers/class equal to spellcasting, some want them to grant everything from extra actions to granting spell slots to healing allies back from death, others want bonus actions, auras, and temp hp/DR.

I see it as a political process with one side with competing rivals which may ultimately circle the wagons around a single candidate, and an opposition side that's going to oppose everything by definition. Pretty much on idealogical grounds.

There is only two solutions: a dedicated group of gamers get together over the net and design a class in hopes being the One Warlord to Command Them All, or a bunch of different ones comes out and the pro-warlord community rallies around the best option. Either way, there will be splinter-groups who prefer their own brew/pet build instead. (This is proving true of Rangers, who have an official WotC build, as well).

Until 4 weeks ago the target audience for builds was their home group, then IMO Mike Mearls and the designers. Warlord builds were aiming at creating a target for WotC to consider for an official design. The tertiary audience was other homebrewers and folks looking for an unofficial build - kind of the primary stage of the process.

At this point, it is more likely we could come up with an ENWorld version, because one of the premises of the DMsGuild is that it serves as a test bed - at large, in a way that ENWorld isn't despite the large number of members. If it came down to 1) No Warlord, or 2) Someone elses Warlord many would settle on having any warlord.

Once the opposing party votes are excluded there seems to be a certain amount of agreement. Not universal, but not irreconcilable.

 

[Jester David]

I see it as a political process with one side with competing rivals which may ultimately circle the wagons around a single candidate, and an opposition side that's going to oppose everything by definition. Pretty much on idealogical grounds.

Not to get political - but you did first so I'll go there - but that's a very American view of politics. Its the politics of a two-party divided nation, and isn't how politics works in most nations that have three or four or even five political parties. There's rivalries and ideological differences, but also compromise and learning from other parties and the shifting of opinions.

Until 4 weeks ago the target audience for builds was their home group, then IMO Mike Mearls and the designers. Warlord builds were aiming at creating a target for WotC to consider for an official design. The tertiary audience was other homebrewers and folks looking for an unofficial build - kind of the primary stage of the process.

At this point, it is more likely we could come up with an ENWorld version, because one of the premises of the DMsGuild is that it serves as a test bed - at large, in a way that ENWorld isn't despite the large number of members. If it came down to 1) No Warlord, or 2) Someone elses Warlord many would settle on having any warlord.

Once the opposing party votes are excluded there seems to be a certain amount of agreement. Not universal, but not irreconcilable.

Okay then. Do so.
It's been remarked that the DMsGuild is that talent testbed. A really awesome warlord product that sells well would unequivocally show the demand and fan support for a warlord class. And they've said there's the possibility of material from there being used in other products or even being officially adapted and published.
If you really think it can be done then do the class.

 

[jodyjohnson]

There's rivalries and ideological differences, but also compromise and learning from other parties and the shifting of opinions.

So the folks not wanting a Warlord are just waiting to be swayed by the right argument? Maybe some, but I expect the compromise would need to be "Martial" is magic whether called Ki or latent Psionic power or "The Force" of Personality. Super Sneak Strike = Ki, Action Surge = The Force, Second Wind = Psionic, Commander's Strike = The Force, Cunning Action = Ki, "Get off your ass!" = Psionic.

Okay then. Do so.

Crap, now I can't. I have this disorder called, "You're not the boss of me" wherein I psychologically can't do anything people tell me to do even if they use 'the force'. Perhaps I can overcome it but {insert excuses here which amount to not making the time yet}.

But seriously, it takes time and my target product is a bit bigger than a 2 page write-up on 1 class.

Jolydee's Obvious Arcana coming soon! A massive project by Jody Lee Johnson.